‘the many and diverse ways of emotional expression, which have varied from culture to culture...are merging into one. The rich tapestry of emotion found across the real world is disintegrating into the digital world around us’ p1307. The Human History of Emotions
Hi everyone! Sorry if this question has been asked and/or discussed to death -- I go through long offline periods so I miss things -- but how do y'all likeminded people find people in real life who share your interests and viewpoints? I want to live in the real world and not through a screen and my family and I have made great strides in this; however, no one we know in our busy daily life thinks about or wants to talk about many of the things that my husband and I are intensely interested in (generally all under the umbrella of unmachining) so we feel a bit forced back online for resources and community. Thoughts, suggestions, clever quips?
I'm tempted to be like that guy in Fight Club and start hanging in self help groups to meet people. "Hi Im James and I am an addict, alcoholic, and have mad cow disease ". Should be SOMEONE who wants to be my friend right? Seriously my wife is the only person I talk to about anything meaningful, which is great BUT we all need friends. Jesus had a whole posse hanging with Him.
You can start talking to people on the street, or in public transport. I have found that there are many people out there who are dying for meaningful contact, or conversation. And when you start saying things that are somewhat controversial... PRIVATELY, they loosen up and say how confused THEY are, too about the propaganda that is spewed in the public space constantly.
I always plug Estuary. It's a format for people to get together and have meaningful conversations. It's not about unmachining per se but you tend to find like-minded people there. It isn't everywhere, but there's resources to help people start new groups. I'm starting a local one with a new friend soon! https://www.estuaryhub.com/
Obviously, we'll never find anyone that completely agrees with us on everything, nor would I want that; it's how I reevaluate my own views at times. But that said, do you attend a local church? It's a place where I've developed some valuable friendships over time, friendships that agree on certain core foundational beliefs. Creating opportunities to develop those relationships on a regular basis via meeting for coffee, dinner, starting a book discussion group, etc. Even at work, finding a couple like-minded people to meet over lunch, with a "no work talk" rule has been helpful in getting to know others better...
Get an allotment (if you are in Britain); join a community garden project; conservation volunteer or campaign group; natural history group that goes out for days on wildlife surveys (lots of geeks that spend hours in nature and no everything about a specific group of animal or plant); find a church without screens. Join a band. Join a nature drawing workshop or learn some craft; woodcraft or pottery etc. You won't necessarily agree on everything but you'll find people that are still to some extend anchored in the real world. You may "click" with a few individuals and start having soming real conversations.
By now many of you have seen or at least heard of the disastrous (and since pulled) iPad commercial "Crush," in which a roomful of instruments, paints, a bust and other artifacts of creation are destroyed under a mechanical press, a process which ends with the eyes popping out of a three-dimensional emoji figure. The press then lifts to reveal the new product. (How it can sculpt a bust is beyond me.) As some of the younger people put it, Apple was saying the quiet part out loud, and they were called on it. Big Machine energy there.
I wanted someone to do a remake, in which the mechanical press was crushing Chinese factory workers, cobalt miners in the DRC, and everyone else in Apple’s supply chain.
Yeah, that was a wild decision. Aside from the creepiness of the message and the fact that the ad was unsettling to watch, the whole argument it was making seemed about 15 years late. We know about tablets, we know about content creation apps, yes, remarkable, wow. Meanwhile, pretty much everyone is trying to spend less time in front of a screen, plenty of people LIKE vinyl records and nice musical instruments, and there’s a lot of discussion about waste reduction, so I don’t understand the thinking behind destroying a lot of objects that people like and value and filming the result. How was this supposed to make me feel more positively about their product?
Hi all, a question for my Orthodox friends: I've been exploring Orthodoxy for the past year or so (attending liturgy on Sundays, mostly), and I recently bought copies of Kallistos Ware's books The Orthodox Church and The Orthodox Way.
Are there any other recommendations for continuing to learn? Books, podcasts, etc.?
This is a good question, and I'm planning to write something soon about my journey to Orthodoxy, as well as some recommendations for reading and the like.
Jared, God bless you on your spiritual journey. For books, I would highly recommend Olivier Clement's "Roots of Christian Mysticism" and Philip Sherrard's "Christianity: Lineaments of a Sacred Tradition." Clement's is a very gentle, but comprehensive, voice who takes the modern world seriously and doesn't pretend it's still the sixth century. Sherrard also does not do any pretending, and he goes deep in this book into both the beauties and the blindspots of Orthodoxy. Both are very ecumenical and charitable, but not ecumenist. A Catholic or Protestant could read both and get a lot out of both, with or without converting.
It's beautifully written and he also has a podcast by the same title. His book "Every Where Present" is a masterpiece and very approachable. I find many Orthodox books heavy going and I hope it doesn't discourage people looking into the faith. We cradle Orthodox are blessed by being born into this but I have found it is always the converts who can tell you about church history and why we "do" what we do.
A big YES to Freeman's blog from me. When I get filled with despair by my continual doom-scrolling, I turn to GGAT for temperance and Orthodox sobriety.
It's been an interesting journey so far. I grew up going to church, but still feel like I have such a rudimentary understanding of the why behind a lot of Christian practices. It's part of what drew me to Orthodoxy in the first place, a desire to seek out a place with a deep sense of tradition.
Besides Ware's books, which were crucial, I offer an odd selection which may or may not speak to you. It set me absolutely on fire. "Fr. Seraphim Rose - His Life and Works." It's huge but gave me an example of a modern 20th century man from California who discovered and lived the "pearl of great price". Re-reading it now 15 years later and I still find it so inspiring.
Hi Jared, I’m new in this community and enjoying it thoroughly, and thought I’d offer some advice. I am currently a cathecumen, and would suggest that you immerse yourself in the liturgy, rather than reading excessively - thats at least the advice my priest gave me since I tend to be very cerebral about things. That taught me some humilty - maybe we don’t primarily approach God through attaining “propositional knowledge” but rather through intuitive immersion in the life of the church. Not saying you shouldn’t read! Just thought that a counter weight to all the good book reccomendations might be warranted. Also, “Thinking orthodox” by Constantinou is good - see I can’t even follow my own advice. Cheers from Denmark!
Ha! I love this advice! The first few times I went to liturgy on Sunday I felt an equal sense of uncertainty, awe, and worship. I didn't understand a lot of what we were doing (hence the uncertainty), but I've always had a profound sense of worship in it, even if the little details don't make sense to me yet. I'm enjoying experiencing a sense of wonder when I go.
Honestly, man, this is very very good advice. Just go to liturgy and absorb it all. More or less don't read stuff. You don't actually have to read or think about anything. Don't try to figure anything out, just figure out how to stand there and sing. I have problems with sensory overload, mixed with reading too many books and being unable to stop trying to piece it all together, and it was hard for me to really just sink in and engage.
I'm glad my advice "fell in good soil" as we would say in Denmark. Yeah, I know - the liturgy is a wild thing to participate in - wild in every sense. Both in terms of the sensory impressions of the icons, the incense and the standing for hours - but especially wild in the sense that what is happening there cannot grasped or controlled by our rational minds no matter how hard we try - at least I cannot - something that we migth not be so accustomed to . And I think that that is a clue to not even try to grasp it that way!
I’d add reading the Lives of the Saints for a lived theology. The OCA website has a daily compilation. Also the Ohrid Prologue site has been invaluable. https://www.rocor.org.au/?page_id=925
If at all possible, attend weekday services: vigil, vespers, matins if offered. These services are full of the teaching of the Church. The beauty of the Psalms, the connections across the scriptures before and after Christ.
And, round about 20 years ago when my attention was arrested by Orthodoxy, I stumbled upon Frederica Matthewes-Green's Facing East. It lives warmly in my memory as my first exposure to a convert's way and local parish life.
Nothing can substitute going to liturgy on a regular basis. Vespers is a special part of my week every time I make it. Blessings on your journey -JW
Wounded by Love is wonderful. Also, 'The Mountain of Silence' by Kyriakos Markides. The first book I ever read on what Orthodoxy really means. Really readable and also profound. Those two books alone might even be enough.
Thank you! I started reading Ware's first book this morning, but I'm adding this to my list. I'm going to take it slow -- my tendency is to try and understand all the parts of something first, but with this I can tell that just going to liturgy and vespers and taking it in is just as valuable. I really appreciate all the helpful suggestions I've gotten here.
One book I found immensely helpful is "Hymn of Entry" by Archimandrite Vasileios. It's a small but deep book which ties together liturgy, theology and life. I had already been Orthodox six or seven years when I read it, but it's one of those that I wished I had come across earlier.
I'm not so familiar with Orthodox writings and other media, with this very substack being perhaps preeminent among them in my experience. But I do like Philip Sherrard's Christianity: Lineaments of a Sacred Tradition.
I have, on the other hand, been connected with a community called St. Mary of Egypt Refuge, which is ecumenical with a strong Orthodox element (most of the liturgies are Orthodox) but also a Catholic presence. It's in a woodsy part of Ontario. The chapel is Byzantine: made of natural wood and phenomenally beautiful: it is connatural with the landscape. If you're in the lower Great Lakes region, you may want to investigate.
From an ecumenical perspective, I recommend books by David Ehrenfeld, a Jewish ecologist (The Arrogance of Humanism, On Being Good Ancestors), Ratzinger's Spirit of the Liturgy, and pretty much anything by Stratford Caldecott.
Jared, I would second all the book recommendations so far, except I would say to leave Seraphim Rose for later; he has some good insights but can be a little too dogmatic for a beginner (imnsho). Do read Fr Stephen Freeman's blog; check in daily for Fr Stephen's answers to questions asked - sometimes these are as valuable as the original posts. Read anything in the archives there - a real treasure trove.
If you want a sort of summary statement of the core of Orthodoxy, I think the best is the Anaphora of St Basil's liturgy - you can find it on line. Print it out (or buy a little liturgy book with the 3 Divine Liturgies, St John Ch., St Basil and the Lenten Presanctified by St Gregory - a great compact prayerful study - St Tikhon's has a nice little volume, "Service Book for the Faithful"). If anything you read doesn't seem to concur with St Basil, discuss it with your priest. I think the books mentioned are enough to keep you for a while. At some point St Athanasius' "On the Incarnation" could be added - just remember that in Orthodoxy, theological terms (like "grace" for example) usually have a slightly different, usually broader and deeper definition than elsewhere in Christianity, so factor that in as you go.
The most important thing is to pray in the Orthodox manner - several good prayer books are available; simply choose a basic one you will use every day. The hymns in the Liturgy and prayer services contain all the doctrine/interpretation of Scripture. Not that you can't read anything else, but prayer and being at as many services as you're able to is most important.
I second the caution about Fr Seraphim Rose. I lovingly call his Life and Works "the Phonebook," because it's that size, and have read it three times, but it is the fountain of what would later become the OrthoBro phenomenon (though much more mature, and much more profound than anything you'll find in that online world today). He can be very ideological, very severe. Definitely in the "The Fathers say X" camp, analogous to "The Bible says X" in fundamentalist Protestantism.
Interesting take. You've been through it more than I have so you have probably gleaned more than me. It makes me sad to hear that the Orthobros might be taking much from Rose. I find him entirely anti-dogmatic and trying to live Orthodoxy from the heart. He was adamantly opposed to "super-correctness" and a proponent of the Royal Path. I like that he seems to be a link to the past and an Orthodoxy that might have disappeared from the world, except perhaps in monasteries. I also can't think of another biography that speaks to me in the 21st century with our 21st century (mis)thinking. I think I read it first at about 6 months after chrismation. I say, dive into the deep end with Rose!
Substack is very weirdly preventing me from 'liking' your comment, Will -- but I do. What you say is fair enough. As with a lot of things, it probably largely depends on the energy and mindset you bring to the book. Also, Father Seraphim himself matured a lot, from his 20s to his 40s, as some of us do, or at least try to...it depends on which parts of the book you focus on. I will say, though, that his overall mentality was very much "There are only a few real Christians left, and 'it's later than you think'" ... this is probably the OrthoBro anxiety, in a nutshell.
Does anyone have an opinion about the 1973 film "The Wicker Man?" It has some truly creepy scenes and Christopher Lee's performance is manically strong. I wondered if this blog's name came from the film or was it from the Lord of Misrule who used to run Christmas festivities in England?
I love it!! I once bought a tweed jacket to make me look like Lord Summerisle (but never a yellow polo-neck). I also like the fact that filming was severely jeopardised by Rod Stewart furiously withdrawing his consent for his girlfriend Britt Ekland to flash her arse. She had to get a stunt double.
I love that film. I recently watched it again and found it even better. What I also thought this time, with my all-new sensibility, was how Christian it is. It could be a propaganda film made by the Church. It's not a Christian film, and it's director is not Christian, but accidentally or otherwise it had that affect. It's a film about martyrdom. It's at the pinnacle of weird British horror.
This is why The Wicker Man is such a great film, and we're talking about it fifty years later. Where is the Machine to be located here? It could be in the policeman, true. On the other hand, he could be the liberator, coming in from outside to challenge the absolute power of the man who owns the entire island, and sacrifices humans to keep that power mythos alive.
It's not baffling to call the policeman a martyr at all. In fact, in the closing scene that's exactly what Lord Summerisle calls him. He tells him that, being a Christian, he will now receive his martrydom at the hands of the pagans, while the pagan islanders will receive their sacrifice. Everybody wins ...
Ha, fascinating. I see a completely different picture.
Summerisle has power over you too, it seems! What's so interesting about the film is that Summerisle acknowledges to Woodward's character that his 'pagan' cult is a new invention. It's not a 'revered ancient tradition' but a religious myth invented by a powerful man to retain control of his land and people. Rather like the church, in your view. But because it is 'pagan' (although invented, like much paganism is) it gets a free pass. That's one of the many layers that makes the film so interesting.
(I'm not sure how much you know about land ownership in Scotland, by the way, but it's very much not 'autonomous' and lacking in 'centralised power'! The fact that Summerisle is English and lives in a castle is not an accident.)
Nobody has any guns in The Wicker Man, by the way. It's seventies Britain.
Did you ever feel like the policeman after you became a Christian? Another pinnacle of weird British horror is "The Devil Rides Out." What do you think of that one?
Apparently, it was one of Christopher Lee's favourites because this time he plays the hero. Hammer Horror films directed by Terrence Fisher; they are not perfect but the atmosphere is always good. "Dracula , Prince of Darkness" has a vampire hunting monk character that I really like. That is another directed by Terrence Fisher. Christopher Lee, refused to say any of his lines in this one, so he is silent throughout the film. I'm reaching here but from a certain angle these films could be seen to be as prophetic. Western Civilisation, being menaced in the 50s/60s by the machine and the Devil, with Dracula as the stand in for supernatural evil.
The unease and vague sense of menace through the first part of the film, especially, are wonderfully creepy! I enjoyed this documentary about folk horror - lots of other film suggestions in it: https://woodlandsdarkanddaysbewitched.com/
I would love to see a re-make of this film in which a modern neo-pagan stumbles into a Christian community isolated from modernity and therefore still practicing what's called 'folk Christianity'. The Christian folk religion would be way more 'pagan' (i.e. in communion with the earth) than the neo-pagan.
I've been wondering if, as people are navigating reenchantment and the rewilding of Christianity, etc, if you know of people involved in the more ancient, sacramental, catholic forms of Christianity, who are advocating for, experimenting with, etc, returning to the Eucharist as a full meal, rather than a symbolic one? Protestants have been at this in various quarters from a "return to the sources" point of view (the NT describes the Eucharist as happening in the context of a meal), but now in this "back to the Earth, back to the body" energy happening in conjunction with a kind of return to Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism, etc, is "back to the agape feast" a thing anywhere, that anybody knows of? I'm trying to write about it, but feeling extra alone and alien about it, even more than usual...
Ah, yes -- the seder meal is kind of a thing in the Catholic circles I used to be connected with via school, too. My in-laws, who are pastors, just had a Messianic Rabbi do one at their Lutheran church, too.
I recall when I was at school in the 70s being a member of an organisation called Young Christian Students, which was a sort of Catholic social justice warrior movement, and on one occasion we celebrated an agape feast. Sticks in my mind because it was the first time I had come across the word. So it was being done back then in the adventurous trendy spirit of those times. Never heard of it since but I think it's worth reviving, as an occasional thing at least though not as a replacement or substitute for the regular liturgy.
Is there any reason why the liturgy could not be re-integrated with the agape? (Of course, there is the one great reason which dominates all things: inertia -- but I'm talking about theological reasons -- are there reasons, real reasons, theological reasons, not to do that reintegration? My understanding is that they were first split from one another for purely practical, not theological reasons -- basically, recent ex-pagans getting drunk, not understanding what a civilized sacred jewish meal looks like)
Another reason the separation of the Eucharist from a full meal was the need to have larger groups of people receive communion at the same service.. It would be quite a feat to set up a full blown meal for hundreds of people every Sunday with participation in communion as part of the meal, a consequence of the expansion of numbers of Christians I guess along with the loss of the free expression of varied gifts of the Spirit in a group setting.
Yes, very true. A lot depends on whether you think 1000 people should all meet together in the same basilica, or 1000 people should meet in 50 different homes. if you're going basilica, you're going to make the meal symbolic as fast as you can.
(and similarly, to pick up on another thing you said, 1000 in one basilica is also going to mean the free expression of charismatic gifts will need to develop into something more orderly and doable and realistic, and less like the kingdom of God -- all the charismatic gifts symbolized by deacons, priests, and bishops 'having' the gifts on 'behalf' of the people, etc -- something like that)
Yes, more orderly, doable, but less real! The Spirit’s presence more hidden and represented by symbol and ritual, generalized and not as concrete and actual in overt here and now action.
Yes, I think it would be better if the church met all spread out in smaller divisions with periodic larger gatherings for special celebrations with art, beauty, music, ceremonies
So I am wondering how 1 Corinthians 11: 17-34 would work in relation to what you are asking...are you thinking of an agape feast that becomes the Eucharist meal within the Liturgy?
Our Texas church lays out a spread after nearly all Sunday Liturgies, and of course at Pascha. The whole bunch of us will bring potluck offerings (and then we share in clean-up by teams). Some folks who are kind of on a circuit of the area churches for donations will drop in and share the meal. Our church is not the only one either. We do like to share our lives and prayers and raise some glasses together each week.
Right, exactly. As with other sacred Jewish meals at home involving bread and wine -- the weekly Sabbath meal on Friday evening, Passover, etc -- the bread and wine of the Eucharist would have been eaten and drunk as a part of a full meal. The contemporary American Orthodox practice of a potluck or coffee hour or whatever after the liturgy is really nice, or can be, but that is a casual meal which takes place after, and separately from, the sacred but symbolic meal which is ritually blessed as the mystical body and blood of Christ.
Also: "We do like to share our lives and prayers and raise some glasses together each week" -- wonderful! Can you say more? Is this like a structured thing where everyone in the parish would have somewhere to go during the week, to pray in small groups, share fellowship, etc?
Please see my reply (wherever it is?) We do spend lots of time together all week. It is a mark of our parish and others that have been influenced by the Archbishop Dmitri of Dallas and the South. Of course it is kind of southern!
I don't know if this counts, Graham, but in my parish we have a full-on meal after the Sunday Liturgy, with very few exceptions - sometimes potluck, but mostly a small group prepares it Sunday a.m. or sometimes Saturday. There's a small charge, but it's not for the lunch itself, which is free for all - the money goes to pay the cleaning crew that comes in on Monday. Anyone can eat. I don't know how different that would be than the meal in the NT, except that our meal is open. Otherwise, it would seem to fulfill the same purpose.
Hi Dana -- that's wonderful that you have a meal that's at least in conjunction with the liturgy. The difference between that and the NT, as I see it, is that, like any Jewish sacred meal, the blessing of the bread and wine of the Eucharist would take place in the context of a full meal -- *so that* the meal itself, and the table fellowship face to face that the meal involved, would be *the way in which* the followers of Messiah would themselves becomes his body. It might not sound like there's a big difference between a ritual followed by a meal, and a meal that is itself the ritual, but I think that difference is what Sherrard is talking about when he says, "The Church and the Eucharist have lost their meaning as an integrating and creative focus of communal life. From being a 'common cause' they have become a means of individual salvation. The Christian’s own religiousness has become his chief preoccupation. And in this context the concept of the Christian’s responsibility for the fate of the world has inescapably lost all meaning." Also, on a more practical note, in the parish where I was going for 13 years, since the meal after the liturgy was not, in fact the ritual, and not the way in which we came together to become the body, it was treated casually -- people had their phones out, etc, and talked about whatever. I found it hard to relate. One more thing -- is your cleaning crew people in your parish? Because if you're having a meal together, then hiring people to clean up, who make their living from cleaning, but who aren't connected to the church body as brothers and sisters, that would probably be another easily overlooked, but possibly important difference.
Yes, I get what you're saying. Sherrard is always on point, I have found.
I'm not sure if there's a way to combine the two logistically. Certainly there could be a prayerful ritual and/or a more serious way to approach the full meal. It would take some study into why they got separated, what exactly the Jewish practice was in Jesus' day, and how the Liturgy developed. Just because there doesn't seem to be a "need" for it doesn't mean something serious and connected couldn't happen within the structure of the Liturgy as it is now. At the same time, we have to be careful that we don't get the idea that we have to become "first century Jewish Christians" - the sentiment is laudable and understandable, but we aren't in the first century anymore (and even Jewish scholars are clear that the Jews asked the Christians to leave, not vice-versa). Just seeking wisdom.
The Monday cleaning crew are not connected to the parish; we see it as an opportunity to give someone some honest work and pay them well for their few hours. Every other time food gets made, though, all the parishioners present are responsible for the clean-up.
Dana
p.s. I hear the longing in your heart, Graham. May Christ fill it overflowing. He is risen!
Thanks for this, Dana. I think my main motivation for asking the question -- one that I've had for years -- is not to try to reconstruct or retrieve the first century, but rather because, more than ever before, we deeply need communion *with one another* face to face -- which was the entire point of the Lord's Supper, as construed by the NT.
I can also hear the longing in your heart Graham as you reach for something you are envisioning. I’m not an Orthodox Christian or a church-goer, I can’t remember the last time I received the Eucharist and I am more hermit than community person. But I can relate to longing for an experience of the mysterious collective result of our individual transformative encounters with the divine, to gain a vision of us moving together as we become the rebuilding of the Kingdom by the Master. Not sure if I’m in left field here but this is what your writing triggered in me.
I hadn't seen that. Funny how many masks seem to be slipping these days. We are all product now ...
Ha, I just linked in another comment to an article about this very same monstrous interview. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/05/ai-dating-algorithms-relationships/678422/
‘the many and diverse ways of emotional expression, which have varied from culture to culture...are merging into one. The rich tapestry of emotion found across the real world is disintegrating into the digital world around us’ p1307. The Human History of Emotions
Hi everyone! Sorry if this question has been asked and/or discussed to death -- I go through long offline periods so I miss things -- but how do y'all likeminded people find people in real life who share your interests and viewpoints? I want to live in the real world and not through a screen and my family and I have made great strides in this; however, no one we know in our busy daily life thinks about or wants to talk about many of the things that my husband and I are intensely interested in (generally all under the umbrella of unmachining) so we feel a bit forced back online for resources and community. Thoughts, suggestions, clever quips?
Is this advice being offered from personal experience?
I'm tempted to be like that guy in Fight Club and start hanging in self help groups to meet people. "Hi Im James and I am an addict, alcoholic, and have mad cow disease ". Should be SOMEONE who wants to be my friend right? Seriously my wife is the only person I talk to about anything meaningful, which is great BUT we all need friends. Jesus had a whole posse hanging with Him.
You can start talking to people on the street, or in public transport. I have found that there are many people out there who are dying for meaningful contact, or conversation. And when you start saying things that are somewhat controversial... PRIVATELY, they loosen up and say how confused THEY are, too about the propaganda that is spewed in the public space constantly.
I always plug Estuary. It's a format for people to get together and have meaningful conversations. It's not about unmachining per se but you tend to find like-minded people there. It isn't everywhere, but there's resources to help people start new groups. I'm starting a local one with a new friend soon! https://www.estuaryhub.com/
Obviously, we'll never find anyone that completely agrees with us on everything, nor would I want that; it's how I reevaluate my own views at times. But that said, do you attend a local church? It's a place where I've developed some valuable friendships over time, friendships that agree on certain core foundational beliefs. Creating opportunities to develop those relationships on a regular basis via meeting for coffee, dinner, starting a book discussion group, etc. Even at work, finding a couple like-minded people to meet over lunch, with a "no work talk" rule has been helpful in getting to know others better...
Get an allotment (if you are in Britain); join a community garden project; conservation volunteer or campaign group; natural history group that goes out for days on wildlife surveys (lots of geeks that spend hours in nature and no everything about a specific group of animal or plant); find a church without screens. Join a band. Join a nature drawing workshop or learn some craft; woodcraft or pottery etc. You won't necessarily agree on everything but you'll find people that are still to some extend anchored in the real world. You may "click" with a few individuals and start having soming real conversations.
By now many of you have seen or at least heard of the disastrous (and since pulled) iPad commercial "Crush," in which a roomful of instruments, paints, a bust and other artifacts of creation are destroyed under a mechanical press, a process which ends with the eyes popping out of a three-dimensional emoji figure. The press then lifts to reveal the new product. (How it can sculpt a bust is beyond me.) As some of the younger people put it, Apple was saying the quiet part out loud, and they were called on it. Big Machine energy there.
I saw that video today, and I had the same thought. Apple isn't even trying to hide it anymore.
I wanted someone to do a remake, in which the mechanical press was crushing Chinese factory workers, cobalt miners in the DRC, and everyone else in Apple’s supply chain.
Yeah, that was a wild decision. Aside from the creepiness of the message and the fact that the ad was unsettling to watch, the whole argument it was making seemed about 15 years late. We know about tablets, we know about content creation apps, yes, remarkable, wow. Meanwhile, pretty much everyone is trying to spend less time in front of a screen, plenty of people LIKE vinyl records and nice musical instruments, and there’s a lot of discussion about waste reduction, so I don’t understand the thinking behind destroying a lot of objects that people like and value and filming the result. How was this supposed to make me feel more positively about their product?
There is a good post on the video. https://substack.com/inbox/post/144533516
Hi all, a question for my Orthodox friends: I've been exploring Orthodoxy for the past year or so (attending liturgy on Sundays, mostly), and I recently bought copies of Kallistos Ware's books The Orthodox Church and The Orthodox Way.
Are there any other recommendations for continuing to learn? Books, podcasts, etc.?
This is a good question, and I'm planning to write something soon about my journey to Orthodoxy, as well as some recommendations for reading and the like.
Thank you, Paul! I look forward to that.
Jared, God bless you on your spiritual journey. For books, I would highly recommend Olivier Clement's "Roots of Christian Mysticism" and Philip Sherrard's "Christianity: Lineaments of a Sacred Tradition." Clement's is a very gentle, but comprehensive, voice who takes the modern world seriously and doesn't pretend it's still the sixth century. Sherrard also does not do any pretending, and he goes deep in this book into both the beauties and the blindspots of Orthodoxy. Both are very ecumenical and charitable, but not ecumenist. A Catholic or Protestant could read both and get a lot out of both, with or without converting.
Thank you, Graham! This is really helpful.
Thanks, Graham. Onto my list.
I would highly recommend Father Stephen Freeman's blog "Glory to God For All Things". https://glory2godforallthings.com/
It's beautifully written and he also has a podcast by the same title. His book "Every Where Present" is a masterpiece and very approachable. I find many Orthodox books heavy going and I hope it doesn't discourage people looking into the faith. We cradle Orthodox are blessed by being born into this but I have found it is always the converts who can tell you about church history and why we "do" what we do.
A big YES to Freeman's blog from me. When I get filled with despair by my continual doom-scrolling, I turn to GGAT for temperance and Orthodox sobriety.
Thank you, Amy! I just bookmarked his blog.
It's been an interesting journey so far. I grew up going to church, but still feel like I have such a rudimentary understanding of the why behind a lot of Christian practices. It's part of what drew me to Orthodoxy in the first place, a desire to seek out a place with a deep sense of tradition.
Besides Ware's books, which were crucial, I offer an odd selection which may or may not speak to you. It set me absolutely on fire. "Fr. Seraphim Rose - His Life and Works." It's huge but gave me an example of a modern 20th century man from California who discovered and lived the "pearl of great price". Re-reading it now 15 years later and I still find it so inspiring.
Agree -- that's a great book.
Thank you, Will! I love this recommendation.
Hi Jared, I’m new in this community and enjoying it thoroughly, and thought I’d offer some advice. I am currently a cathecumen, and would suggest that you immerse yourself in the liturgy, rather than reading excessively - thats at least the advice my priest gave me since I tend to be very cerebral about things. That taught me some humilty - maybe we don’t primarily approach God through attaining “propositional knowledge” but rather through intuitive immersion in the life of the church. Not saying you shouldn’t read! Just thought that a counter weight to all the good book reccomendations might be warranted. Also, “Thinking orthodox” by Constantinou is good - see I can’t even follow my own advice. Cheers from Denmark!
Ha! I love this advice! The first few times I went to liturgy on Sunday I felt an equal sense of uncertainty, awe, and worship. I didn't understand a lot of what we were doing (hence the uncertainty), but I've always had a profound sense of worship in it, even if the little details don't make sense to me yet. I'm enjoying experiencing a sense of wonder when I go.
Honestly, man, this is very very good advice. Just go to liturgy and absorb it all. More or less don't read stuff. You don't actually have to read or think about anything. Don't try to figure anything out, just figure out how to stand there and sing. I have problems with sensory overload, mixed with reading too many books and being unable to stop trying to piece it all together, and it was hard for me to really just sink in and engage.
I'm glad my advice "fell in good soil" as we would say in Denmark. Yeah, I know - the liturgy is a wild thing to participate in - wild in every sense. Both in terms of the sensory impressions of the icons, the incense and the standing for hours - but especially wild in the sense that what is happening there cannot grasped or controlled by our rational minds no matter how hard we try - at least I cannot - something that we migth not be so accustomed to . And I think that that is a clue to not even try to grasp it that way!
I’d add reading the Lives of the Saints for a lived theology. The OCA website has a daily compilation. Also the Ohrid Prologue site has been invaluable. https://www.rocor.org.au/?page_id=925
If at all possible, attend weekday services: vigil, vespers, matins if offered. These services are full of the teaching of the Church. The beauty of the Psalms, the connections across the scriptures before and after Christ.
Thank you!
St. Porphyrios, Wounded by Love
And, round about 20 years ago when my attention was arrested by Orthodoxy, I stumbled upon Frederica Matthewes-Green's Facing East. It lives warmly in my memory as my first exposure to a convert's way and local parish life.
Nothing can substitute going to liturgy on a regular basis. Vespers is a special part of my week every time I make it. Blessings on your journey -JW
Thank you, Jay!
Wounded by Love is wonderful. Also, 'The Mountain of Silence' by Kyriakos Markides. The first book I ever read on what Orthodoxy really means. Really readable and also profound. Those two books alone might even be enough.
Thank you! I started reading Ware's first book this morning, but I'm adding this to my list. I'm going to take it slow -- my tendency is to try and understand all the parts of something first, but with this I can tell that just going to liturgy and vespers and taking it in is just as valuable. I really appreciate all the helpful suggestions I've gotten here.
I third Wounded by Love and second The Mountain of Silence.
Neither of those books will keep you stuck in your head. Your heart will be engaged also.
I fourth and third them.
One book I found immensely helpful is "Hymn of Entry" by Archimandrite Vasileios. It's a small but deep book which ties together liturgy, theology and life. I had already been Orthodox six or seven years when I read it, but it's one of those that I wished I had come across earlier.
I'm not so familiar with Orthodox writings and other media, with this very substack being perhaps preeminent among them in my experience. But I do like Philip Sherrard's Christianity: Lineaments of a Sacred Tradition.
I have, on the other hand, been connected with a community called St. Mary of Egypt Refuge, which is ecumenical with a strong Orthodox element (most of the liturgies are Orthodox) but also a Catholic presence. It's in a woodsy part of Ontario. The chapel is Byzantine: made of natural wood and phenomenally beautiful: it is connatural with the landscape. If you're in the lower Great Lakes region, you may want to investigate.
From an ecumenical perspective, I recommend books by David Ehrenfeld, a Jewish ecologist (The Arrogance of Humanism, On Being Good Ancestors), Ratzinger's Spirit of the Liturgy, and pretty much anything by Stratford Caldecott.
The Lord of Spirits podcast is very good (Fathers Stephen De Young and Stephen Damick)
I've listened to a few episodes! I really enjoy their approach.
Jared, I would second all the book recommendations so far, except I would say to leave Seraphim Rose for later; he has some good insights but can be a little too dogmatic for a beginner (imnsho). Do read Fr Stephen Freeman's blog; check in daily for Fr Stephen's answers to questions asked - sometimes these are as valuable as the original posts. Read anything in the archives there - a real treasure trove.
If you want a sort of summary statement of the core of Orthodoxy, I think the best is the Anaphora of St Basil's liturgy - you can find it on line. Print it out (or buy a little liturgy book with the 3 Divine Liturgies, St John Ch., St Basil and the Lenten Presanctified by St Gregory - a great compact prayerful study - St Tikhon's has a nice little volume, "Service Book for the Faithful"). If anything you read doesn't seem to concur with St Basil, discuss it with your priest. I think the books mentioned are enough to keep you for a while. At some point St Athanasius' "On the Incarnation" could be added - just remember that in Orthodoxy, theological terms (like "grace" for example) usually have a slightly different, usually broader and deeper definition than elsewhere in Christianity, so factor that in as you go.
The most important thing is to pray in the Orthodox manner - several good prayer books are available; simply choose a basic one you will use every day. The hymns in the Liturgy and prayer services contain all the doctrine/interpretation of Scripture. Not that you can't read anything else, but prayer and being at as many services as you're able to is most important.
God grant you grace-
Dana
Christ is risen!
I second the Anaphora of St. Basil's liturgy. It contains the whole history of salvation.
I second the caution about Fr Seraphim Rose. I lovingly call his Life and Works "the Phonebook," because it's that size, and have read it three times, but it is the fountain of what would later become the OrthoBro phenomenon (though much more mature, and much more profound than anything you'll find in that online world today). He can be very ideological, very severe. Definitely in the "The Fathers say X" camp, analogous to "The Bible says X" in fundamentalist Protestantism.
Interesting take. You've been through it more than I have so you have probably gleaned more than me. It makes me sad to hear that the Orthobros might be taking much from Rose. I find him entirely anti-dogmatic and trying to live Orthodoxy from the heart. He was adamantly opposed to "super-correctness" and a proponent of the Royal Path. I like that he seems to be a link to the past and an Orthodoxy that might have disappeared from the world, except perhaps in monasteries. I also can't think of another biography that speaks to me in the 21st century with our 21st century (mis)thinking. I think I read it first at about 6 months after chrismation. I say, dive into the deep end with Rose!
Substack is very weirdly preventing me from 'liking' your comment, Will -- but I do. What you say is fair enough. As with a lot of things, it probably largely depends on the energy and mindset you bring to the book. Also, Father Seraphim himself matured a lot, from his 20s to his 40s, as some of us do, or at least try to...it depends on which parts of the book you focus on. I will say, though, that his overall mentality was very much "There are only a few real Christians left, and 'it's later than you think'" ... this is probably the OrthoBro anxiety, in a nutshell.
Fr. Seraphim Rose, has a lot of interesting books.
Does anyone have an opinion about the 1973 film "The Wicker Man?" It has some truly creepy scenes and Christopher Lee's performance is manically strong. I wondered if this blog's name came from the film or was it from the Lord of Misrule who used to run Christmas festivities in England?
I love it!! I once bought a tweed jacket to make me look like Lord Summerisle (but never a yellow polo-neck). I also like the fact that filming was severely jeopardised by Rod Stewart furiously withdrawing his consent for his girlfriend Britt Ekland to flash her arse. She had to get a stunt double.
For the avoidance of doubt, I don’t look like Lord Summerisle.
Funny. I withdrew my consent to buy any more of Rod's albums after "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy".
I love that film. I recently watched it again and found it even better. What I also thought this time, with my all-new sensibility, was how Christian it is. It could be a propaganda film made by the Church. It's not a Christian film, and it's director is not Christian, but accidentally or otherwise it had that affect. It's a film about martyrdom. It's at the pinnacle of weird British horror.
This is why The Wicker Man is such a great film, and we're talking about it fifty years later. Where is the Machine to be located here? It could be in the policeman, true. On the other hand, he could be the liberator, coming in from outside to challenge the absolute power of the man who owns the entire island, and sacrifices humans to keep that power mythos alive.
It's not baffling to call the policeman a martyr at all. In fact, in the closing scene that's exactly what Lord Summerisle calls him. He tells him that, being a Christian, he will now receive his martrydom at the hands of the pagans, while the pagan islanders will receive their sacrifice. Everybody wins ...
Ha, fascinating. I see a completely different picture.
Summerisle has power over you too, it seems! What's so interesting about the film is that Summerisle acknowledges to Woodward's character that his 'pagan' cult is a new invention. It's not a 'revered ancient tradition' but a religious myth invented by a powerful man to retain control of his land and people. Rather like the church, in your view. But because it is 'pagan' (although invented, like much paganism is) it gets a free pass. That's one of the many layers that makes the film so interesting.
(I'm not sure how much you know about land ownership in Scotland, by the way, but it's very much not 'autonomous' and lacking in 'centralised power'! The fact that Summerisle is English and lives in a castle is not an accident.)
Nobody has any guns in The Wicker Man, by the way. It's seventies Britain.
Did you ever feel like the policeman after you became a Christian? Another pinnacle of weird British horror is "The Devil Rides Out." What do you think of that one?
I have a terrible feeling that I am morphing into Edward Woodward, when I really always wanted to be Christopher Lee.
I've never seen The Devil Rides Out actually. It's on the list now!
Apparently, it was one of Christopher Lee's favourites because this time he plays the hero. Hammer Horror films directed by Terrence Fisher; they are not perfect but the atmosphere is always good. "Dracula , Prince of Darkness" has a vampire hunting monk character that I really like. That is another directed by Terrence Fisher. Christopher Lee, refused to say any of his lines in this one, so he is silent throughout the film. I'm reaching here but from a certain angle these films could be seen to be as prophetic. Western Civilisation, being menaced in the 50s/60s by the machine and the Devil, with Dracula as the stand in for supernatural evil.
The unease and vague sense of menace through the first part of the film, especially, are wonderfully creepy! I enjoyed this documentary about folk horror - lots of other film suggestions in it: https://woodlandsdarkanddaysbewitched.com/
I would love to see a re-make of this film in which a modern neo-pagan stumbles into a Christian community isolated from modernity and therefore still practicing what's called 'folk Christianity'. The Christian folk religion would be way more 'pagan' (i.e. in communion with the earth) than the neo-pagan.
I've been wondering if, as people are navigating reenchantment and the rewilding of Christianity, etc, if you know of people involved in the more ancient, sacramental, catholic forms of Christianity, who are advocating for, experimenting with, etc, returning to the Eucharist as a full meal, rather than a symbolic one? Protestants have been at this in various quarters from a "return to the sources" point of view (the NT describes the Eucharist as happening in the context of a meal), but now in this "back to the Earth, back to the body" energy happening in conjunction with a kind of return to Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism, etc, is "back to the agape feast" a thing anywhere, that anybody knows of? I'm trying to write about it, but feeling extra alone and alien about it, even more than usual...
I’m only aware of it on special occasions such as the Holy Week seder at the local Episcopal church.
Ah, yes -- the seder meal is kind of a thing in the Catholic circles I used to be connected with via school, too. My in-laws, who are pastors, just had a Messianic Rabbi do one at their Lutheran church, too.
I recall when I was at school in the 70s being a member of an organisation called Young Christian Students, which was a sort of Catholic social justice warrior movement, and on one occasion we celebrated an agape feast. Sticks in my mind because it was the first time I had come across the word. So it was being done back then in the adventurous trendy spirit of those times. Never heard of it since but I think it's worth reviving, as an occasional thing at least though not as a replacement or substitute for the regular liturgy.
Is there any reason why the liturgy could not be re-integrated with the agape? (Of course, there is the one great reason which dominates all things: inertia -- but I'm talking about theological reasons -- are there reasons, real reasons, theological reasons, not to do that reintegration? My understanding is that they were first split from one another for purely practical, not theological reasons -- basically, recent ex-pagans getting drunk, not understanding what a civilized sacred jewish meal looks like)
Another reason the separation of the Eucharist from a full meal was the need to have larger groups of people receive communion at the same service.. It would be quite a feat to set up a full blown meal for hundreds of people every Sunday with participation in communion as part of the meal, a consequence of the expansion of numbers of Christians I guess along with the loss of the free expression of varied gifts of the Spirit in a group setting.
Yes, very true. A lot depends on whether you think 1000 people should all meet together in the same basilica, or 1000 people should meet in 50 different homes. if you're going basilica, you're going to make the meal symbolic as fast as you can.
(and similarly, to pick up on another thing you said, 1000 in one basilica is also going to mean the free expression of charismatic gifts will need to develop into something more orderly and doable and realistic, and less like the kingdom of God -- all the charismatic gifts symbolized by deacons, priests, and bishops 'having' the gifts on 'behalf' of the people, etc -- something like that)
Yes, more orderly, doable, but less real! The Spirit’s presence more hidden and represented by symbol and ritual, generalized and not as concrete and actual in overt here and now action.
Yes, I think it would be better if the church met all spread out in smaller divisions with periodic larger gatherings for special celebrations with art, beauty, music, ceremonies
So I am wondering how 1 Corinthians 11: 17-34 would work in relation to what you are asking...are you thinking of an agape feast that becomes the Eucharist meal within the Liturgy?
Our Texas church lays out a spread after nearly all Sunday Liturgies, and of course at Pascha. The whole bunch of us will bring potluck offerings (and then we share in clean-up by teams). Some folks who are kind of on a circuit of the area churches for donations will drop in and share the meal. Our church is not the only one either. We do like to share our lives and prayers and raise some glasses together each week.
Right, exactly. As with other sacred Jewish meals at home involving bread and wine -- the weekly Sabbath meal on Friday evening, Passover, etc -- the bread and wine of the Eucharist would have been eaten and drunk as a part of a full meal. The contemporary American Orthodox practice of a potluck or coffee hour or whatever after the liturgy is really nice, or can be, but that is a casual meal which takes place after, and separately from, the sacred but symbolic meal which is ritually blessed as the mystical body and blood of Christ.
Also: "We do like to share our lives and prayers and raise some glasses together each week" -- wonderful! Can you say more? Is this like a structured thing where everyone in the parish would have somewhere to go during the week, to pray in small groups, share fellowship, etc?
Or, wait -- were you still talking about Sunday? Is there wine as part of the potluck?
Yes on Sundays and other days too. The folks who can attend weekday Liturgies also share meals at church.
Yes to the wine at any time if available, and if appropriate for the fasting calendar and for the event.
Oh, ok -- right. I thought you were talking about home fellowships between liturgies, maybe. I am a dreamer!
Please see my reply (wherever it is?) We do spend lots of time together all week. It is a mark of our parish and others that have been influenced by the Archbishop Dmitri of Dallas and the South. Of course it is kind of southern!
I don't know if this counts, Graham, but in my parish we have a full-on meal after the Sunday Liturgy, with very few exceptions - sometimes potluck, but mostly a small group prepares it Sunday a.m. or sometimes Saturday. There's a small charge, but it's not for the lunch itself, which is free for all - the money goes to pay the cleaning crew that comes in on Monday. Anyone can eat. I don't know how different that would be than the meal in the NT, except that our meal is open. Otherwise, it would seem to fulfill the same purpose.
Dana
Hi Dana -- that's wonderful that you have a meal that's at least in conjunction with the liturgy. The difference between that and the NT, as I see it, is that, like any Jewish sacred meal, the blessing of the bread and wine of the Eucharist would take place in the context of a full meal -- *so that* the meal itself, and the table fellowship face to face that the meal involved, would be *the way in which* the followers of Messiah would themselves becomes his body. It might not sound like there's a big difference between a ritual followed by a meal, and a meal that is itself the ritual, but I think that difference is what Sherrard is talking about when he says, "The Church and the Eucharist have lost their meaning as an integrating and creative focus of communal life. From being a 'common cause' they have become a means of individual salvation. The Christian’s own religiousness has become his chief preoccupation. And in this context the concept of the Christian’s responsibility for the fate of the world has inescapably lost all meaning." Also, on a more practical note, in the parish where I was going for 13 years, since the meal after the liturgy was not, in fact the ritual, and not the way in which we came together to become the body, it was treated casually -- people had their phones out, etc, and talked about whatever. I found it hard to relate. One more thing -- is your cleaning crew people in your parish? Because if you're having a meal together, then hiring people to clean up, who make their living from cleaning, but who aren't connected to the church body as brothers and sisters, that would probably be another easily overlooked, but possibly important difference.
Yes, I get what you're saying. Sherrard is always on point, I have found.
I'm not sure if there's a way to combine the two logistically. Certainly there could be a prayerful ritual and/or a more serious way to approach the full meal. It would take some study into why they got separated, what exactly the Jewish practice was in Jesus' day, and how the Liturgy developed. Just because there doesn't seem to be a "need" for it doesn't mean something serious and connected couldn't happen within the structure of the Liturgy as it is now. At the same time, we have to be careful that we don't get the idea that we have to become "first century Jewish Christians" - the sentiment is laudable and understandable, but we aren't in the first century anymore (and even Jewish scholars are clear that the Jews asked the Christians to leave, not vice-versa). Just seeking wisdom.
The Monday cleaning crew are not connected to the parish; we see it as an opportunity to give someone some honest work and pay them well for their few hours. Every other time food gets made, though, all the parishioners present are responsible for the clean-up.
Dana
p.s. I hear the longing in your heart, Graham. May Christ fill it overflowing. He is risen!
Thanks for this, Dana. I think my main motivation for asking the question -- one that I've had for years -- is not to try to reconstruct or retrieve the first century, but rather because, more than ever before, we deeply need communion *with one another* face to face -- which was the entire point of the Lord's Supper, as construed by the NT.
I can also hear the longing in your heart Graham as you reach for something you are envisioning. I’m not an Orthodox Christian or a church-goer, I can’t remember the last time I received the Eucharist and I am more hermit than community person. But I can relate to longing for an experience of the mysterious collective result of our individual transformative encounters with the divine, to gain a vision of us moving together as we become the rebuilding of the Kingdom by the Master. Not sure if I’m in left field here but this is what your writing triggered in me.