I just loved reading this! Thank you for fresh information ( never knew about the Coptic monks). The well isn’t terribly romantic, is it? Those bars look positively playground material (circa 1960’s). But as you wrote, fitting for its industrial location.
I love this. It deepens the connection between Egypt and Ireland which is already very strong and runs through the veins of Irish spiritual life whether people are aware of it or not. There are many stories of finding Egyptian relics buried in the soil, and there is a connection between Isis and Loughcrew. Thanks Paul. 17 is an auspicious number. Perhaps there’s power in that, too.
I've also heard the connections between the Egyptians and the Irish go back way further than we think, so I'm very interested to read your comment, Abby. Can you say more?
There is a book about buried pyramids in Ireland I can dig it out for you. There are Egyptian mythologies seeping into ours - not so much Christian but still with the Egyptian connection. Yeats and Crowley coming together with the Temple of Isis in Loughcrew - lots of this isn’t mainstream. Black magic is real. Ireland is a very powerful land and the church wanted to take the power for themselves. I read somewhere that the cells on Skellig island were based on the desert monks. We are really only beginning to learn who we are.
Thanks Abby, again very interesting! I had heard that the Irish and Egyptians are genetically connected, and presume this goes back to the ancient stories of geographical movements of peoples that we've pushed to the back of our memories (or rather allowed to be suppressed).
Hi Abby, I've never come across any mention of Yeats and Crowley at Loughcrew. The Temple of Isis was founded long after those magician poets died so am curious as to your allusion. I am not in agreement with the notion that there was a plot to claim the power of the Irish land by the early Church. Certainly, using sacred natural places of devotion was incorporated into the official early Church. Certainly the Church exercised great control over this country from the late 19th century. Thanks in advance, Ailish
I’m obviously no expert on anything to do with history. But the more I sit with the layers of our past the more I feel they are deeper than we think and more richly entwined than we could ever imagine. What if God created you a second ago with your memories intact? You can’t prove it, nor can I prove what I said above, just as I cannot prove my belief that Stonehenge was once in Lough Gur and Merlin moved it to the UK because his King asked him to. Perhaps Croagh Patrick is a pyramid, and the latent power is what pulls people to it for pilgrimage. Perhaps the Church piggybacking on all of these power points to try to claim the power for itself is a deliberate act to keep the power from the people. All I can say for sure is that people are noticing now, and this is in parallel with the loss of power the Church is having over people. The power in each and every one of is being activated. Even if all we are doing is having conversations like this one, which would never have been allowed a decade ago. Namaste.
Thanks for taking the time to reply, Abby. It *is* interesting to think about connections between Irish Stone Age beliefs (we know scarce little beyond the solar and agricultural festivals), the better documented Egyptian cosmology, and more recent mythical land guardians/kings -although I don't personally see a coherant throughpoint there. Alas, the vacuum left by the Church is being filled by a new ideology, one very much removed from the natural world and universal truths of older belief systems that either sprung from the land or took wholesome root here. It's great to have a space to have these conversations.
I loved this piece, thank you. For many reasons. The milk flowing from Saint Catherine's neck, this image haunts me. So rich and potent with beauty. I also find myself taken with the idea of desert Christianity in Ireland, how curious and how wonderful. It feels true in a very deep way.
I write from the deserts of the Arabian Gulf myself, often on transculturality, and learning that Irish Christianity could be an outcropping of the ancient faith of the desert fathers and mothers is like poetry to me.
Fascinating alt-history. What if Rome had never turned Christianity into a continuation of the lavish extravagant Imperial Rome? What if those early Ethiopian and Egyptian Christians had been the sole spreaders into Europe and elsewhere? Christianity would have been 'mere' from the start, with no need for rebels like Mohammed or Luther or Hus.
"the desert Monastery of St Catherine of Sinai - the oldest continually-occupied monastery in the entire Christian world"
That's where my avatar image originates from, a religious icon called Christ Pantocrator (which is an awesome word to begin with).
Though not religious, I was really impressed by it when I saw it the first time. The style looks so fresh, though it is one of the oldest Byzantine religious icons, dating from the 6th century AD, and to me icons usually look kind of 'stiff', for lack of a better word.
But what really impressed me, was this (quote from Wikipedia):
"Many agree that the icon represents the dual nature of Christ, illustrating traits of both man and God, perhaps influenced by the aftermath of the ecumenical councils of the previous century at Ephesus and Chalcedon. Christ's features on his right side (the viewer's left) are supposed to represent the qualities of his human nature, while his left side (the viewer's right) represents his divinity. His right hand is shown opening outward, signifying his gift of blessing, while the left hand and arm are clutching a thick Gospel book."
If you click my avatar (or go to Wikipedia), you may see the composite image I've made with the original in the centre, and the two mirrored halves of the face at either side. I need to get that framed, so I can look at it more often.
I registered on Substack because of Paul's writing years ago, and chose to use the composite image of the Sinai Christ Pantocrator icon as an avatar, not knowing about Paul's conversion at the time. It's one of these nice little religious coincidences that happen to me from time to time, making me wonder whether it's a sign from above that I should shape my agnosticism into something more focussed.
Maybe I need to visit the Sacred Autonomous Royal Monastery of Saint Catherine of the Holy and God-Trodden Mount Sinai as well.
Because so many icons were destroyed during the 8th and 9th C. iconoclastic periods not many that are older than that survive, and the Christ of Sinai is one of them. I've not read a history of icons, but it would be interesting to learn how the painting of them re-emerged and grew after iconoclasm ended. I would think that they'd have to base the new icons on the remaining ones from pre-iconoclasm days. But perhaps the older traditions had died out and the new ones that arose couldn't capture that original "naturalism."
The classic history of this topic is Ouspensky’s “The Theology of the Icon.” The iconoclasm actually wound up refining the theology of iconography, and as the Church spread, each of the cultures it encountered developed their own “style” based on those theological underpinnings.
Well, I had the same problem for a long time. I'm a rational, educated Western man, and we're all allergic to the notion of 'surrendering to God.' And there's nothing wrong with using your reason. You have to make sure you're not going down some blind alley or joining a cult.
I still have a hard time leaving it all to God. That conditioning doesn't just disappear. But sometimes I can manage it.
Still, I found that prayer ... worked. Just ask God to help you out. There's a little Orthodox prayer I like a lot: 'Lord, I believe; help my unbelief.' Sit in front of the icon and say that and see what happens ...
Does the recent Eastern Orthodox community in Ireland connect with the large Christian Coptic extant in Egypt, N. Africa and Sudan?
Curious place modern(ised) Ireland! Great write-up. I love that bit of rough pasture and thorn (?) backdrop and the glimpse in your final photo of the amazing circles of rain ovelapping in the water like Celtic circles, a palimpsest image of a Cross.
Earliest 'Anglian Christianity' conversion in southern Scotland and northern England, (see also St Cuthbert at Coldingham) arrived from 'Irish' Iona in the 7thC https://orthochristian.com/133791.html
The flowering of Celtic Preaching Crosses across this region to the Atlantic seabord remains as an archaeological record - I am fond of the still standing Cross at Bewcastle near Hadrian's Wall and the rescued Cross with its runes and sacred poetry in the church at Ruthwell on the Solway.
PS/NB Ah ... Alexandria ... those years before Nicaea ... Britannica provides a fact-check on Maxentius... turbulent times in a roiled empire, fair amount of propaganda around ... Glad though Justinian and Theodora secured the desert fathers at the Burning Bush and Catherine's remains are cared for there.
Many years ago I read an old, small book that made the case that Pelagius' error was rooted in his British/Celtic Christianity, which was Eastern rather than Latin in nature. The guy that wrote it attempted to tar Eastern Christianity in general with the error, but of course the Eastern Church strongly rejected Pelagianism too. Still, the Eastern Christian connection makes sense, and the case could be made that Pelagianism is an "Eastern" error as much as it is a Latin one, perhaps a corruption of "desert Christianity."
Wow! The Egyptian desert connection makes a lot of sense given the hermetic heritage in Ireland.
I was talking recently with a friend who makes regular pilgrimage to St Catherine’s Monastery, and he shared multiple stories that are quite wild indeed - encounters and occurrences the modern world would not call normal but that are quite normal there.
Hi Paul. Egyptian monks, yes. However, you emphasize coptic several times. Is there some concrete reason to say they were coptic? Egyptian Christian doesn't automatically mean coptic. Egyptian Christian doesn't automatically mean coptic. I mean, the Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria didn't go anywhere... Just curious...
Apparently the story in Killybegs involves 'Coptic monks.' But also, if you watch Alf Monaghan's talk you'll see a Coptic connection. More broadly though, I agree that it is the spirituality of the Egyptian desert that seems to have settled Ireland, whether Coptic or Orthodox.
Completely agree on the Egyptian origins of Christianity in Ireland. A lot of the practices of the Irish monks, as portrayed in the various Rules ( or fragments of them) do bear a strong resemblance to the desert fathers eremitic tradition. It's very inspiring to think Egyptian monks evangelise Ireland, and by later extension, parts of the UK.
Lovely to read about St Catherine's well. To be picky - do you mean the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms were mostly converted by Irish monks? I always thought the British had already early adopted Christianity - hence stories about the monk Assa being King Alfred's 'secretary' etc?
The Scots and the Anglo-Saxons of the north of England were converted by the Irish monks, after the Anglo-Saxon invasions had re-paganised much of Britain. You're right that there was Christianity here before that. The tradition is that it arrived in Roman Britain as early as the 1st century.
I just loved reading this! Thank you for fresh information ( never knew about the Coptic monks). The well isn’t terribly romantic, is it? Those bars look positively playground material (circa 1960’s). But as you wrote, fitting for its industrial location.
I love this. It deepens the connection between Egypt and Ireland which is already very strong and runs through the veins of Irish spiritual life whether people are aware of it or not. There are many stories of finding Egyptian relics buried in the soil, and there is a connection between Isis and Loughcrew. Thanks Paul. 17 is an auspicious number. Perhaps there’s power in that, too.
I've also heard the connections between the Egyptians and the Irish go back way further than we think, so I'm very interested to read your comment, Abby. Can you say more?
There is a book about buried pyramids in Ireland I can dig it out for you. There are Egyptian mythologies seeping into ours - not so much Christian but still with the Egyptian connection. Yeats and Crowley coming together with the Temple of Isis in Loughcrew - lots of this isn’t mainstream. Black magic is real. Ireland is a very powerful land and the church wanted to take the power for themselves. I read somewhere that the cells on Skellig island were based on the desert monks. We are really only beginning to learn who we are.
Thanks Abby, again very interesting! I had heard that the Irish and Egyptians are genetically connected, and presume this goes back to the ancient stories of geographical movements of peoples that we've pushed to the back of our memories (or rather allowed to be suppressed).
Here’s the book!
https://idoc.tips/ireland-land-of-the-pharaohs-pdf-free.html
Ooh, thanks!!
Hi Abby, I've never come across any mention of Yeats and Crowley at Loughcrew. The Temple of Isis was founded long after those magician poets died so am curious as to your allusion. I am not in agreement with the notion that there was a plot to claim the power of the Irish land by the early Church. Certainly, using sacred natural places of devotion was incorporated into the official early Church. Certainly the Church exercised great control over this country from the late 19th century. Thanks in advance, Ailish
I’m obviously no expert on anything to do with history. But the more I sit with the layers of our past the more I feel they are deeper than we think and more richly entwined than we could ever imagine. What if God created you a second ago with your memories intact? You can’t prove it, nor can I prove what I said above, just as I cannot prove my belief that Stonehenge was once in Lough Gur and Merlin moved it to the UK because his King asked him to. Perhaps Croagh Patrick is a pyramid, and the latent power is what pulls people to it for pilgrimage. Perhaps the Church piggybacking on all of these power points to try to claim the power for itself is a deliberate act to keep the power from the people. All I can say for sure is that people are noticing now, and this is in parallel with the loss of power the Church is having over people. The power in each and every one of is being activated. Even if all we are doing is having conversations like this one, which would never have been allowed a decade ago. Namaste.
Thanks for taking the time to reply, Abby. It *is* interesting to think about connections between Irish Stone Age beliefs (we know scarce little beyond the solar and agricultural festivals), the better documented Egyptian cosmology, and more recent mythical land guardians/kings -although I don't personally see a coherant throughpoint there. Alas, the vacuum left by the Church is being filled by a new ideology, one very much removed from the natural world and universal truths of older belief systems that either sprung from the land or took wholesome root here. It's great to have a space to have these conversations.
It really is great, and important to talk about this openly and without fear. Thanks for replying!
I loved this piece, thank you. For many reasons. The milk flowing from Saint Catherine's neck, this image haunts me. So rich and potent with beauty. I also find myself taken with the idea of desert Christianity in Ireland, how curious and how wonderful. It feels true in a very deep way.
I write from the deserts of the Arabian Gulf myself, often on transculturality, and learning that Irish Christianity could be an outcropping of the ancient faith of the desert fathers and mothers is like poetry to me.
Fascinating alt-history. What if Rome had never turned Christianity into a continuation of the lavish extravagant Imperial Rome? What if those early Ethiopian and Egyptian Christians had been the sole spreaders into Europe and elsewhere? Christianity would have been 'mere' from the start, with no need for rebels like Mohammed or Luther or Hus.
"the desert Monastery of St Catherine of Sinai - the oldest continually-occupied monastery in the entire Christian world"
That's where my avatar image originates from, a religious icon called Christ Pantocrator (which is an awesome word to begin with).
Though not religious, I was really impressed by it when I saw it the first time. The style looks so fresh, though it is one of the oldest Byzantine religious icons, dating from the 6th century AD, and to me icons usually look kind of 'stiff', for lack of a better word.
But what really impressed me, was this (quote from Wikipedia):
"Many agree that the icon represents the dual nature of Christ, illustrating traits of both man and God, perhaps influenced by the aftermath of the ecumenical councils of the previous century at Ephesus and Chalcedon. Christ's features on his right side (the viewer's left) are supposed to represent the qualities of his human nature, while his left side (the viewer's right) represents his divinity. His right hand is shown opening outward, signifying his gift of blessing, while the left hand and arm are clutching a thick Gospel book."
If you click my avatar (or go to Wikipedia), you may see the composite image I've made with the original in the centre, and the two mirrored halves of the face at either side. I need to get that framed, so I can look at it more often.
I registered on Substack because of Paul's writing years ago, and chose to use the composite image of the Sinai Christ Pantocrator icon as an avatar, not knowing about Paul's conversion at the time. It's one of these nice little religious coincidences that happen to me from time to time, making me wonder whether it's a sign from above that I should shape my agnosticism into something more focussed.
Maybe I need to visit the Sacred Autonomous Royal Monastery of Saint Catherine of the Holy and God-Trodden Mount Sinai as well.
Because so many icons were destroyed during the 8th and 9th C. iconoclastic periods not many that are older than that survive, and the Christ of Sinai is one of them. I've not read a history of icons, but it would be interesting to learn how the painting of them re-emerged and grew after iconoclasm ended. I would think that they'd have to base the new icons on the remaining ones from pre-iconoclasm days. But perhaps the older traditions had died out and the new ones that arose couldn't capture that original "naturalism."
The classic history of this topic is Ouspensky’s “The Theology of the Icon.” The iconoclasm actually wound up refining the theology of iconography, and as the Church spread, each of the cultures it encountered developed their own “style” based on those theological underpinnings.
Thank you for sharing the book title for more information. It’s a fascinating subject—and an important one. I found it for free online :-)
Good call. I read his and Lossky's 'The Meaning of Icons' years ago, but have never read that particular book.
I have that icon as a centrepiece on my icon table. It's very special.
Get that agnositicism sorted out! You're being reeled in ...
"I have that icon as a centrepiece on my icon table. It's very special. "
It just blows my mind that it's from the 6th century AD.
"Get that agnositicism sorted out! You're being reeled in ..."
Thanks for making me smile. :-)
I have a hard time surrendering, probably because of how I have been conditioned. But, who knows, maybe a few more coincidences/nudges...
I'm always a bit envious of people who believe. Just leave it to God, He knows best. What a way to reduce stress!
Well, I had the same problem for a long time. I'm a rational, educated Western man, and we're all allergic to the notion of 'surrendering to God.' And there's nothing wrong with using your reason. You have to make sure you're not going down some blind alley or joining a cult.
I still have a hard time leaving it all to God. That conditioning doesn't just disappear. But sometimes I can manage it.
Still, I found that prayer ... worked. Just ask God to help you out. There's a little Orthodox prayer I like a lot: 'Lord, I believe; help my unbelief.' Sit in front of the icon and say that and see what happens ...
This is why I subscribe to Paul.
Does the recent Eastern Orthodox community in Ireland connect with the large Christian Coptic extant in Egypt, N. Africa and Sudan?
Curious place modern(ised) Ireland! Great write-up. I love that bit of rough pasture and thorn (?) backdrop and the glimpse in your final photo of the amazing circles of rain ovelapping in the water like Celtic circles, a palimpsest image of a Cross.
Earliest 'Anglian Christianity' conversion in southern Scotland and northern England, (see also St Cuthbert at Coldingham) arrived from 'Irish' Iona in the 7thC https://orthochristian.com/133791.html
The flowering of Celtic Preaching Crosses across this region to the Atlantic seabord remains as an archaeological record - I am fond of the still standing Cross at Bewcastle near Hadrian's Wall and the rescued Cross with its runes and sacred poetry in the church at Ruthwell on the Solway.
PS/NB Ah ... Alexandria ... those years before Nicaea ... Britannica provides a fact-check on Maxentius... turbulent times in a roiled empire, fair amount of propaganda around ... Glad though Justinian and Theodora secured the desert fathers at the Burning Bush and Catherine's remains are cared for there.
Beautiful. Thank you.
Many years ago I read an old, small book that made the case that Pelagius' error was rooted in his British/Celtic Christianity, which was Eastern rather than Latin in nature. The guy that wrote it attempted to tar Eastern Christianity in general with the error, but of course the Eastern Church strongly rejected Pelagianism too. Still, the Eastern Christian connection makes sense, and the case could be made that Pelagianism is an "Eastern" error as much as it is a Latin one, perhaps a corruption of "desert Christianity."
Wow! The Egyptian desert connection makes a lot of sense given the hermetic heritage in Ireland.
I was talking recently with a friend who makes regular pilgrimage to St Catherine’s Monastery, and he shared multiple stories that are quite wild indeed - encounters and occurrences the modern world would not call normal but that are quite normal there.
Hi Paul. Egyptian monks, yes. However, you emphasize coptic several times. Is there some concrete reason to say they were coptic? Egyptian Christian doesn't automatically mean coptic. Egyptian Christian doesn't automatically mean coptic. I mean, the Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria didn't go anywhere... Just curious...
Apparently the story in Killybegs involves 'Coptic monks.' But also, if you watch Alf Monaghan's talk you'll see a Coptic connection. More broadly though, I agree that it is the spirituality of the Egyptian desert that seems to have settled Ireland, whether Coptic or Orthodox.
Imagine going off to unknown lands to spread the Gospel. The danger and adventure are sorely lacking in todays machine age.
Thanks for writing this.
Completely agree on the Egyptian origins of Christianity in Ireland. A lot of the practices of the Irish monks, as portrayed in the various Rules ( or fragments of them) do bear a strong resemblance to the desert fathers eremitic tradition. It's very inspiring to think Egyptian monks evangelise Ireland, and by later extension, parts of the UK.
Interesting as always, and a heck of a juxtaposition between the rather ominous looking turbine blades and the close by holy well.
Lovely to read about St Catherine's well. To be picky - do you mean the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms were mostly converted by Irish monks? I always thought the British had already early adopted Christianity - hence stories about the monk Assa being King Alfred's 'secretary' etc?
The Scots and the Anglo-Saxons of the north of England were converted by the Irish monks, after the Anglo-Saxon invasions had re-paganised much of Britain. You're right that there was Christianity here before that. The tradition is that it arrived in Roman Britain as early as the 1st century.