"The revolutionary spirit comes from the West. I can't say why."
The West prioritizes desires and their fulfillment. Whoever has most toys wins. There is nothing in the West comparable to the Dharmic notion of unattachment. The West is all about attachment to self, the self's desires, and the tumult/revolution that results from trying …
"The revolutionary spirit comes from the West. I can't say why."
The West prioritizes desires and their fulfillment. Whoever has most toys wins. There is nothing in the West comparable to the Dharmic notion of unattachment. The West is all about attachment to self, the self's desires, and the tumult/revolution that results from trying to fulfill them.
Also, the West developed the notion of the "tragic," which never developed in the East (see Yuk Hui on this):
According to Hui, the Western culture/ideology is based on the concept of tragic discontinuity--Oedipus and the rest of humanity struggle against fate--existing in a perpetual state of revolution of one sort or another. In the East, while there is opposition, continuity and harmony are emphasized--there is not the struggle to break free, but the effort to harmonize and become one with.
I highly recommend Hui's "Art and Cosmotechnics”--beautifully written and brilliant.
Yes, but why is 'the West' - this small part of the Europe - the place where this tendency developed so powerfully? It's a question that fascinates me. Possibly you're right that attachment is the key. Eastern Christianity does focus on askesis and 'death to the world' in a way that the Western traditions don't - though even here there is a long Christian tradition of monasticism and sacrifice. It remains a mystery to me.
I have previously mentioned Fr. John Strickland's series Paradise and Utopia: the Rise and Fall of What the West Once Was. It is written for broader audience (i.e., not academic), and traces this exact theme. The last volume of the series, probably due out later this year, is about our own times, "The Age of Nihilism". The whole series is worth a look.
It seems to me that at some point Western Christianity moved away from askesis and towards something more legalistic. When and where that occurred I don't know -- it seems likely that it happened at different times in different places. But one thing that seems pretty certain is that the Reformation and Counter-Reformation gave the marginalization of asceticism in the West a sizable push.
Along those lines I'd highly recommend Brad Gregory's The Unintended Reformation, which lays out in great detail how some major traits of modernity are traceable as unintended effects of certain key Reformation ideas, while in no sense downplaying the problems in the Catholic Church of the time that prompted the reformers.
I think that what lies at the root of this Western "problem" is a deep-seated difference between Eastern and Western Christianity's respective understandings of the nature of human freedom. Dostoevsky was certainly onto this, but I've yet to come across anything that examines the issue in a systematic way.
Brad Gregory’s The Unintended Reformation is outstanding… let me also push an essay recently recommended by Patrick Deneen that gives a very different reading on the Reformation:
Cavanaugh argues that what we call “The Wars of Religion” were primarily political wars conducted by elites looking to expand their power and not actually wars fought over conflicting Christian beliefs.,
I have long thought that it is the latent Roman Imperial spirit, coupled with the discovery of Aristotle. Hans Boersma, an evangelical protestant, but an unusual one wrote of these philosophical shifts in his book on what I would call 'the unmaking of Creation' (Also to echo Iain McGilchrist). Boersma - who is interested in the work of the ressourcement Catholoic theologians, who renewed Catholic interest in the patristics - listed the rise of nominalism, voluntarism and univocity. The thing that hit me from his account was how the key events - eg the rise of the doctrine of transubstantiation - occurred in the immediate aftermath of The Great Schism, an event he doesn't reference . . . It is as if 'the head' disconnected from 'the heart', or the wider body. In McGilchrist's terms the disconnection between the left and right hemisphere of the brain which led us to Descartes and The Modern World. Or to use a Thomist account, once you believe their is such a thing as 'natura pura', all bets are off and Nietzche is our destination. Apologies as this is incredibly rambling and disconnected, but as an inheritor and indeed a member of the Western Ecclesial Heirarchy, I think I'm qualified to criticise the Western Church :-)
Thanks for this Eric. The more I read, think and experience the more I understand that the Schism - an event I barely even knew about a few years back - was a massive break in our history, and a big reason for our unique course. There is much to ponder on that.
I have a friend a retired bishop. He once wrote a blog post on ‘all the church things that people blame the current state of the world on’. When I told him that he’d missed out my favourite/ The Great Schism - he replied‘What’s that?’ So you’re not in bad company
I’ve been a Christian from birth but only 20 years ago began to wake up to Orthodoxy.
BTW Paul - in answer to your question 'What does Progress want?', I suggest a very simple answer - 'More'. It is indeed the insatiable Spirit of Moloch. As a priest I hear everywhere the unspoken question, 'why is it never enough?'. Two further references and then I'll return to my contemplation :-) First have you come across Scott Alexander's extended 'Meditation on Moloch'? Worth a look in this regard. Second - Progress - The Timbered Choir by Wendell Berry . . . The pursuit of 'The objective' is a journey form nowhere to nowhere. There are no reference points - every love unloved etc. Blessings on your day!
This is all very cerebral analysis. Simplifying the various strains of emphasis: philosophy, technology, art, harmony vs power/discontinuity, organic relationship-- can we include the commons and community into right relationship and organic techniques such as permaculture and biomimicry to reunite humanity to its place in snd of nature. This is true art in living, orientation to the ground of being and it’s highest expression on earth. As we continue to destroy the nature of things we get further and further from the unitive and cooperative ways that is creation. There are ways to offer and express these principles that number to infinity and keep our humanity intact
From a Buddhist standpoint, humanity is already united with its place in nature. The problem is that people forget this fact, and then undertake efforts at reunification, which fail since you can sew back on a finger that has not been severed. The first step of the Noble Eightfold Path is Right View, and all that is needed is a grounding in it and the subsequent path, and the unity that already exists will become apparent.
"As we continue to destroy the nature of things we get further and further from the unitive and cooperative ways that is creation."
Because people valorize self and desire fulfillment.
Yes indeed, a dangerous turn away from cooperation with our world and its abundance, a part of the whole or holy, as opposed to apart from the whole, alienated, frantic, and competitive
"The revolutionary spirit comes from the West. I can't say why."
The West prioritizes desires and their fulfillment. Whoever has most toys wins. There is nothing in the West comparable to the Dharmic notion of unattachment. The West is all about attachment to self, the self's desires, and the tumult/revolution that results from trying to fulfill them.
Also, the West developed the notion of the "tragic," which never developed in the East (see Yuk Hui on this):
https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/technology-after-hegemony-on-yuk-huis-art-and-cosmotechnics/
According to Hui, the Western culture/ideology is based on the concept of tragic discontinuity--Oedipus and the rest of humanity struggle against fate--existing in a perpetual state of revolution of one sort or another. In the East, while there is opposition, continuity and harmony are emphasized--there is not the struggle to break free, but the effort to harmonize and become one with.
I highly recommend Hui's "Art and Cosmotechnics”--beautifully written and brilliant.
Yes, but why is 'the West' - this small part of the Europe - the place where this tendency developed so powerfully? It's a question that fascinates me. Possibly you're right that attachment is the key. Eastern Christianity does focus on askesis and 'death to the world' in a way that the Western traditions don't - though even here there is a long Christian tradition of monasticism and sacrifice. It remains a mystery to me.
I have previously mentioned Fr. John Strickland's series Paradise and Utopia: the Rise and Fall of What the West Once Was. It is written for broader audience (i.e., not academic), and traces this exact theme. The last volume of the series, probably due out later this year, is about our own times, "The Age of Nihilism". The whole series is worth a look.
It seems to me that at some point Western Christianity moved away from askesis and towards something more legalistic. When and where that occurred I don't know -- it seems likely that it happened at different times in different places. But one thing that seems pretty certain is that the Reformation and Counter-Reformation gave the marginalization of asceticism in the West a sizable push.
Along those lines I'd highly recommend Brad Gregory's The Unintended Reformation, which lays out in great detail how some major traits of modernity are traceable as unintended effects of certain key Reformation ideas, while in no sense downplaying the problems in the Catholic Church of the time that prompted the reformers.
I think that what lies at the root of this Western "problem" is a deep-seated difference between Eastern and Western Christianity's respective understandings of the nature of human freedom. Dostoevsky was certainly onto this, but I've yet to come across anything that examines the issue in a systematic way.
Brad Gregory’s The Unintended Reformation is outstanding… let me also push an essay recently recommended by Patrick Deneen that gives a very different reading on the Reformation:
http://www.jesusradicals.com/uploads/2/6/3/8/26388433/wars-of-religion-and-the-rise-of-the-state.pdf
Cavanaugh argues that what we call “The Wars of Religion” were primarily political wars conducted by elites looking to expand their power and not actually wars fought over conflicting Christian beliefs.,
Yeah, that's a great essay. Cavanaugh later expanded its argument into a book, 'The Myth of Religious Violence.'
Thank you for the new book recommendation!
Thanks for these. I wrote about Deneen's book, and Gregory's, in some previous essays. I agree that they really fill in some gaps.
I have long thought that it is the latent Roman Imperial spirit, coupled with the discovery of Aristotle. Hans Boersma, an evangelical protestant, but an unusual one wrote of these philosophical shifts in his book on what I would call 'the unmaking of Creation' (Also to echo Iain McGilchrist). Boersma - who is interested in the work of the ressourcement Catholoic theologians, who renewed Catholic interest in the patristics - listed the rise of nominalism, voluntarism and univocity. The thing that hit me from his account was how the key events - eg the rise of the doctrine of transubstantiation - occurred in the immediate aftermath of The Great Schism, an event he doesn't reference . . . It is as if 'the head' disconnected from 'the heart', or the wider body. In McGilchrist's terms the disconnection between the left and right hemisphere of the brain which led us to Descartes and The Modern World. Or to use a Thomist account, once you believe their is such a thing as 'natura pura', all bets are off and Nietzche is our destination. Apologies as this is incredibly rambling and disconnected, but as an inheritor and indeed a member of the Western Ecclesial Heirarchy, I think I'm qualified to criticise the Western Church :-)
Thanks for this Eric. The more I read, think and experience the more I understand that the Schism - an event I barely even knew about a few years back - was a massive break in our history, and a big reason for our unique course. There is much to ponder on that.
I have a friend a retired bishop. He once wrote a blog post on ‘all the church things that people blame the current state of the world on’. When I told him that he’d missed out my favourite/ The Great Schism - he replied‘What’s that?’ So you’re not in bad company
I’ve been a Christian from birth but only 20 years ago began to wake up to Orthodoxy.
BTW Paul - in answer to your question 'What does Progress want?', I suggest a very simple answer - 'More'. It is indeed the insatiable Spirit of Moloch. As a priest I hear everywhere the unspoken question, 'why is it never enough?'. Two further references and then I'll return to my contemplation :-) First have you come across Scott Alexander's extended 'Meditation on Moloch'? Worth a look in this regard. Second - Progress - The Timbered Choir by Wendell Berry . . . The pursuit of 'The objective' is a journey form nowhere to nowhere. There are no reference points - every love unloved etc. Blessings on your day!
This is all very cerebral analysis. Simplifying the various strains of emphasis: philosophy, technology, art, harmony vs power/discontinuity, organic relationship-- can we include the commons and community into right relationship and organic techniques such as permaculture and biomimicry to reunite humanity to its place in snd of nature. This is true art in living, orientation to the ground of being and it’s highest expression on earth. As we continue to destroy the nature of things we get further and further from the unitive and cooperative ways that is creation. There are ways to offer and express these principles that number to infinity and keep our humanity intact
"This is all very cerebral analysis."
Analysis often is cerebral.
"reunite humanity to its place in snd of nature."
From a Buddhist standpoint, humanity is already united with its place in nature. The problem is that people forget this fact, and then undertake efforts at reunification, which fail since you can sew back on a finger that has not been severed. The first step of the Noble Eightfold Path is Right View, and all that is needed is a grounding in it and the subsequent path, and the unity that already exists will become apparent.
"As we continue to destroy the nature of things we get further and further from the unitive and cooperative ways that is creation."
Because people valorize self and desire fulfillment.
Yes indeed, a dangerous turn away from cooperation with our world and its abundance, a part of the whole or holy, as opposed to apart from the whole, alienated, frantic, and competitive