The series I began two years ago, tracing the grwoth of 'the Machine' comes to a natural end soon. But then there'll be a renewal. More on that in a month or so.
Paul, what's going on in Ireland with the proposed Bill 2022 re: removing personal sovereignty and instating invasive surveillance and censorship? Your government seeks to control the words you speak and the information on your computer. Will this extend into organized religion - some denominations are good and others must be banned?
Hey Paul- I’m curious about your theology- and particularly your relationship to the Romanian Orthodox Church as dogmatic authority. My own theology doesn’t have any room for magisteriums, Rabbinates, or other authoritative human bodies- though tradition gets a strong vote. That said, this is an ongoing site of thought and struggle for me. Have you written about this anywhere? Can you point to a book that reflects your theology or the tradition you follow? Or do you want to take a shot at summing it up in the comments section? Lol. I’d appreciate anything you can share about this to satisfy my curiosity and maybe spark conversation.
Well, I'm an Orthodox Christian, and I wrote about why in the essay below. I've not written anything about Orthodoxy in particular, not least because I'm very new to it. But I cleave to the tradition of the church and the path laid down. I used to reject all authority, in a very modern way. Later I realised that following a real tradition brings freedom. I may write more on this.
I think it would be great if you did. I’ve thought about theology for decades, myself, and I’ve been through phases where I did follow traditions or authorities (I was a monk when I was younger, for instance). Yet ultimately I found I couldn’t submit myself to an authority on dogma- so I’ve tended towards following traditions where there is latitude for free thought in recent years. In the Christian world an example of this would be the Anglican Church, both historically and currently- but I’m not sure how this functions in the Orthodox Church and I’m curious about that. Is the Orthodox Church more about orthopraxy with room for differing opinions? and also curious how you yourself handle a controversial dogma. Like for instance, jumping right in- what do you think about hell?
May 8, 2023·edited May 8, 2023Liked by Paul Kingsnorth
"I’m not sure how this functions in the Orthodox Church and I’m curious about that. Is the Orthodox Church more about orthopraxy with room for differing opinions?"
We don't seperate the Liturgical life from dogma, they are are intertwined. The idea that a religious institution should be neutral or non-commital on dogma and allow individual opinions to prevail is a hangup of the modern West. There is a hint of fear there in modern man that he might have to submit to something other than his own tastes, whims and weaknesses. Given we view man's spiritual nous as being substantially impacted by our alienation from God since the fall, we don't put the intellectual speculation of fallen individuals at the core of anything. That said, there is no requirement for every member of the Church to be a theologian; most people are not and don't need to be one. Orthodox spiritual life also emphasises the point of gradual and steady progression. Diving into the deepest ascetic literature or dogmas that are beyond our current level of comprehension is not going to serve anyone well. There is the risk of self-delusion and/or despondency. There needs to be some humility and patience together with recognition that one is not the arbiter of everything and cannot simply demand an understanding of all dogma before one has even begun living the spiritual life.
I would recommend reading some St Sophrony who wrote extensively for Westerners on matters of dogma and the spiritual life. The following are some citations from his books:
"There are three things that I do not understand: (1) faith without dogma; (2) Christianity without the Church: (3) Christianity without asceticism. And these three – the Church, doctrine and asceticism (that is, Christian asceticism) – form for me one single life."
"When our mind is free from passions, our nature which was deformed by the Fall is restored to its former beauty. If we are in God's likeness, revelations become normal phenomena for us. The Christian way consists in filling our mind and heart with the higher knowledge of God."
"Without the spirit of repentance, without the experience of true obedience, one cannot become a true theologian or priest, that is, a person capable of teaching the Christian way."
"Theological science, which is taught in academic institutions and has become intellectual specialisation open to all, does not give knowledge of God. Knowledge of God comes from life in God, which is born in the deepest place of the heart."
Well said! Concise, to the point, and absolutely true! I cannot understand how or why someone would choose to worship a god largely constructed of their own idiosyncratic desires.
Well, I did. That was exactly what I wanted! The trappings of Christianity, but on my terms. It has been very humbling to see that about myself. And tbh I see it everywhere, even outside of what we call religion. Lots of self-worship these days. People are creating their own self (I identify as x, y, and z) as their god.
"The cult of me" as I often refer to it. Everyone desperately seeking an identity, a reason for being, primarily because they are being sold it by the machine.
It's perfectly ok to just be. But that doesn't ring the cash tills.
Love this comment. I spent 10 years as an Episcopalian, and recently converted to Orthodoxy. From my current vantage point, it sure does look like my own pride was getting in the way a lot. I wanted to choose which parts of Christianity to believe, finding the parts about sexuality and the role of females a bit troubling for example. Christ had other plans for me. This is a religion of humility. May we all who are called find our way towards Christ.
Nikola, as someone new to Orthodoxy, still very much at the toe dipping stage, so much of that resonates strongly. This part especially, as for me:
"The idea that a religious instituion should be neutral or non-commital on dogma and allow individual opinions to prevail is a hangup of the modern West. There is a hint of fear there in modern man that he might have to submit to something other than his own tastes, whims and weaknesses."
For me at least it sums up why Orthodoxy is very much at odds with much of Western Liberal thinking. If you can't get past "the cult of me" it's going to be a tough gig, I'd suggest.
Never say never though. I've certainly changed my outlook quite dramatically in the last 6 months and I never expected to be where I am now.
There are quite a few that are relevant. The classic is "St Silouan the Athonite" which is a biography by St Sophrony of his spiritual father. "We Shall See Him As He Is" is St Sophrony's spiritual autobiography.
If you benefit from those books then I would also recommend "On Prayer" and "Truth and Life".
Yeah, I'm there already, and I didn't follow any dogma. Of course, an Orthodox Christian would say I am in prelest, but the trouble with that is that most likely they would also say all the other religions are essentially prelest as well, which is why I cannot accept that view.
That's not an argument against Orthodoxy or Christianity, its just the declaration of a personal preference for moral relativism. To dismiss a world view unless it concedes in advance that world views which are contrary to it can also be correct is the same as saying you won't accept that any world view can be correct. It's circular reasoning.
Matthew, as an Orthodox convert of 25 years out of the Episcopal Church, and with a Charismatic/Pentecostal background prior to that, I can say that probably the best thing I've read on the subject of authority in the Orthodox Church is Georges Florovsky's book "Bible, Church, Tradition: An Eastern Orthodox View." Unfortunately out of print, copies to purchase are expensive but it's relatively easy to find via interlibrary loan.
Matthew, I concur with Rob that this Florovsky book is the best I have found on this topic. Truly magisterial and well-balanced. I paid a lot money for my copy years ago but it was well worth it. I rejoice to see that Amazon now has a Kindle version for $4.99. One way or another, read it.
Matthew, as faithful (and orthodox) Orthodox layman, I somewhat identify with your mistrust in magisterial formulae. Contrary to impression that recent converts sometimes give, the Orthodox Church dogmatizes as little as possible. We do not have anything like the Roman Catholic magisterium. For example, we do not have a doctrine of Transubstantiation, but neither do we have alternate theory of our own to explain the mystery of the Eucharist. We simply say affirm it is body of Christ and worship it and eat it as such.
Official dogma for us consists of the Holy Scriptures themselves and the decisions of a handful of ecumenical councils. Those councils, by the way, were called for in response to the rise of certain heresies. The Fathers of those councils were forced by circumstances to fence off positions that would undermine the essence of the gospel of Jesus Christ. It was a defensive maneuver, not an offensive one. Dogmatizing for its own sake and idle squabbling over what is purely theoretical is not encouraged in the Orthodox Church. Not that there aren't plenty of armchair theologians in our ranks who love doing those things, but this is not really in the spirit of Orthodoxy, and they really ought to get back to praying and serving others, which is the true work of a Christian. For more on this, I recommend Thinking Orthodox, by Eugenia Scarvelis Constantinou.
The concept of not knowing, explaining or rationalising, but just accepting, is one of Orthodoxy's attractions. You don't spend forever theorizing, you just accept it, pick up your cross and live it.
As we say here in the North of England, "if it ain't bust (broken), don't fix it".
The fact that other forms of Christianity keep trying to adapt to and become acceptable to the modern world, often going against their beliefs in the process, is one of the biggest turn offs for me.
As Paul and others have repeatedly shown, it's the modern world that could learn so much from ancient wisdom, especially (but not exclusively) when it comes to trashing their own habitat.
Thanks for all the comments everyone. My own experience with spiritual authority is not in the Church- I was a Buddhist monk when I was younger, and I am Jewish and have tried to live a (somewhat leftwing) Orthodox Jewish lifestyle in the past. I understand the power and attractiveness of letting a (theoretically) more spiritually advanced Rabbinate guide your practice and outlook- actually I find Orthodox Jewish and Christian perspectives on authority, tradition and practice very, very similar in a number of ways. I have also experienced the issues with this model, issues I suspect are also present in the Orthodox Church. In any case, I am authentically curious and interested in these issues and was not intending a critique of the Orthodox Church, and certainly not a defense of full scale individualistic modernism or spiritual chaos.
Matthew, I think a good place for you to begin besides reading the New Testament and talking to God about this Jesus thing would be to examine the Nicene Creed as an early example of tradition/authority/dogma. I came out of a Buddhist/Hindu/ New Age meditative medley. In response to my reading of the New Testament and what I believe was the experience of the Holy Spirit confirming Jesus as the Way I received Jesus. I then examined the Nicene Creed and felt it was a good reflection of the Biblical teachings and also fit my own experience of the Triune God. I know three Jewish women who each had Jesus appear to them. Those encounters didn’t end with Paul on the road to Damascus. One of them is now in her upper nineties and was my neighbor for over twenty years. She has been a Christian for more than forty years since her encounter. Blessings!
I notice that nobody responded to your very specific question about Hell. Come on Orthodox folks. Don't leave all the specifics up to the Baptists to articulate!
I printed this essay and keep it in my Bible. I read it every now and then. It’s a lovely testimony to a curious life and an open mind. I’ve sent it to several friends.
If you haven't seen it already, you might find Fowler and Peck's Stages of Faith (in Peck's Different Drum) helpful. Stage 3 is a questioning/rebellious stage where dogma is dropped, but then comes stage 5 the Mystic who "values religious tradition, but holds it's institutions lightly, investing in the vision of divinity offered by a tradition, but not necessarily the trappings. Dogma and discipline may be useful fodder for contemplation, but for mystics, all of this is subordinate to the essential Mystery....." this is from a useful summary of the stages of faith in The Way of Thomas by John R Mabry
So excited you're being hosted by UnHerd. I love watching their discussions/debates/interviews. I will definitely be watching the recordings from my home in Montreal, Canada.
"Tomorrow I’ll be in Romania, talking to a group of Orthodox theologians and priests about the Machine. I never thought I’d find myself writing a sentence like that, but life is full of surprises."
It seems to me that we are very uncomfortable with a particular aspect of Jesus. It's like we wish he was something other than what was actually described in the Gospels. I wrote about it here:
Dare to think for yourself and walk your own path. Dead on, sir. Seems plain enough to me that the Jesus we've all been handed is a spurious one, carefully curated to serve mind-controlling interests. "Gospel of Thomas says what? Can't put that in the Bible!"
Since the message of Jesus was an unstoppable pure blast of love that had ample power to enable human beings to throw off all chains of fear-based, authoritarian domination and control, theologians got busy neutering and de-clawing it. No doubt they'd rather he'd been left out of the books altogether had this been possible.
God is within all of us. So is the devil. To love-based, peaceful, wild and free minds J is one and the same with god. No big deal there. Fear-based, inhibited, warlike and controlled people see him as a devil whose presence threatens to bring about chaos and anarchy. In order to stop Jesus, state and religious institutions had to put on his robes, impersonate him, usurp his power and call it their own. (Constantine, et al). This is modern religion, total scam.
All organized ruling institutions, religious or not, are fear-based, authoritarian implements of mind-control designed to keep human beings miserable, self-loathing, suspicious of each other and spiritually lost in order to weaken our natural inclination to seek out and come to know the divine. Thus weakened, we are then easily enslaved to serve commercial interests and rally around the state. We then patriotically throw our sons (and now daughters), into the bloody maw of war. We come to worship brute power and heartlessly clamber and claw over each other for financial gain.
Take a look at the world today and it's like Jesus had never walked the earth. We killed him back then and we sure as hell would kill him if he showed up now. But yet, as always, in good times or bad, unquenchable love spirit is still here with us, clandestine, incognito, celebrating in quiet corners, tending to the resilient wounded and bringing cool water to sincere seekers of truth.
Crucify me for saying this, but one of the worst places to go looking for the holy spirit as powerfully expressed and embodied by the man Jesus, is inside a church. Orthodox Christian ones included. The temple is you. The human body, which was "torn down and rebuilt inside 3 days". Everything, everyone is holy. Only in ones' deceived/controlled mind is this not so. Churches be damned. No one but you can find the love within you and then go out & powerfully live it.
'Crucify me for saying this, but one of the worst places to go looking for the holy spirit as powerfully expressed and embodied by the man Jesus, is inside a church. Orthodox Christian ones included. The temple is you.'
I don't think you'll be crucified for saying that. It's the standard modern formulation: what someone above called 'the cult of me.' It's wrong though. 'The temple is you' is precisely what Lucifer advocates; every other spiritual tradition I know of warns against this attitude too. Today it leads directly into the church of transhumanism. Slavery posing as liberation.
Bit wary about engaging, Paul. Last time you lobbed a handful of dirt in my face rather than answer a simple question, one we both know the answer to: once we rescue the "smartphone monk" from your "discernment" ie, your determination that the phone in his hand means there must be something not right with him, then the your entire essay falls apart.
This indicates to me you are a dirty "fighter". If you are interested in engaging with me honestly here on this new one, let me know. I'm ready to get into it with you.
I don't lob dirt. Only opinion and perspectives - just like you. I explained my perspective last time around: you disagreed. Fair enough. But you have a very aggressive and black and white way of engaging. 'We both know the answer' to your question, you say. No: we have a very different perspective on what the question even is. That would be the interesting point to dig into, rather than seeking some kind of victory in battle.
You do it again here. 'Churches be damned', you say. Well, OK: but I don't think you can write a comment of the kind you just did - a comment which is deliberately provocative - and then act wounded when you meet with disagreement.
Personally I don't 'fight' at all. Actually I despise the attitude which seeks 'fights' in places like this. It's one reason I'm on Substack rather than Twitter. What I like is conversations. So you're right: let's not 'get into it.' Phrases like that set the ground for war. I long ago walked away from that kind of thing.
Ha! Alright then. Wise move, Paul, to recognize the shaky ground you are on. I won't chase you further down into your hiding place. Careful with your assumptions.
Huzzah for another Salon! I have been thinking about The Machine, but also machines generally, and how technological revolutions are followed by decades (or centuries) in which humans wrestle with who we are in relation to them.
Each new technology seems to bring about near-term radical responses, both for and against, along with long term changes that are deeper and more transformative. And yet, after these sometimes cataclysmic changes, the humans who strive and struggle in our oldest writings and poetry are recognizable to us today. There is renewal in the aftermath, as springtime reminds us.
And so I’m wondering, once we are many years further along in the age of The Machine, which human attributes will still be recognizable, as they have been after new technologies such as writing, printing, electronic communication, and computing? What core of our humanity remains constant even as everything once familiar is swept away?
I think despite (or in spite of) everything, humans remain human. We will always be what we are. I don't think we're at the cusp of such a revolutionary moment where humanity will stop being itself and become something other to itself.
I think what's more likely to happen is that people in the 2060s will look at our addiction to our phones the way we look at the prevalence of smoking in the 1930s-70s.
I tend to lean toward the same view, though on the other side I do still wonder if at some point we’re going to push a big red button and do something we can’t undo. I mostly used to worry about that with nuclear weapons, but digital media and AI seem much more threatening lately.
That's because we interact with them daily. Last year during the early weeks of the war in Ukraine, we were closer to nuclear war than anytime in the last forty years. And, uh, that would've been real bad!
I think the digitization of our lives has been almost universally detrimental to humanity, but I also think it's simpler to solve, especially if governments pursue Antitrust more seriously. Which, in the US, is happening, slowly but surely. If the cases against Google, Facebook, and Amazon continue forward on the path they're currently on, it could lead to the breaking up of those companies. If we go one further and make it illegal to harvest data on users, the algorithms themselves begin to become useless.
If these companies can no longer sell our data to advertisers, there's less use to keeping people glued to their platforms all day. If they just shut off the algorithm, the internet would change dramatically overnight and it would likely become quite a bit more peaceful.
Of course, such a thing happening seems very remote right now, but I also think we're closer to it than we've ever been before.
Nothing quite compares to the return of pleasant weather. Been a long, long winter here in Minnesota, only just now turning towards spring, which will last about four days until it's summer.
Thinking about starting tennis for my son because it's all he wants to do these days. I'm not a tennis player myself so I'm not sure where he picked up the notion, but should be fun enough.
We have a fairly long Spring here in England. It’s not always perfect weather-wise but you can feel the change. Then the summer comes and stays a while. We still get some rain most years, and it doesn’t get mega hot. We also get some summers that really don’t feel much like summer, with too much rain. But then I guess that’s how we get to live in ‘Englands Green and Pleasant Land’.
I think there’s probably no perfect place to live climate-wise. Embrace your local stuff I guess.
The Spring is my favourite time of year also Paul. We are in South West Wales and it's been rather slow coming this year. Colder and wetter. Still, yes the Swallows are back and strangely the Primroses have been rampant with hundreds of seedlings all over the garden. My wife teases them all out and divides the larger ones and then replants them along the verges and the local park. Not all is rosy in the garden though. We have a male Blackbird who has claimed the holly tree above my garden chair. He sings his heart out nearly all day and has been for weeks. But has yet to find a wife.:( Such an accomplished singer as well.
I know I am not to covet my neighbor's land, nor his wildlife, nor his moss-covered rocks...but wow, what a temptation to covet! Thanks for sharing the beauty of your area!
Your subject line immediately transported me to the May festival that Buccmaster and his companions run across on their way to Stamford in The Wake. :) Thanks for that.
When I was keeping bees, I loved watching the clover grow with each day and watching those workers dutifully forage from sun-up to sun down. Enjoy these next few weeks.
The news found me this morning that the U.S. would soon lift travel restrictions for the unvaccinated. I hope this proves true and also allows you to travel and speak in the U.S. If so, please travel to the great state of Georgia. We Southerners are known for our hospitality.
“The vision of the greening land always fills me with joy. The swallows are back, the nights are still and the world still works. Given the dark content of the last couple of essays, it’s good to go outside and get some perspective. “
Here in Alaska, this is also extremely, extraordinarily true. Nature still turns around us, while we fret inside our small, at times chaotic, minds. Glad to know I’m not the only one who finds that sometimes the best prescription for the issue, whatever it may be, is to simply go outside. Glad you’re traveling and taking extra time for essays and enjoying greenery - excited about it all!
Here in the SE US ( Georgia ) its already starting to swelter. Will rain for a few minutes and then the sun comes out and its a steambath. Will be a long summer but were accustomed to it. Growing up here we had no AC. Open a window and stick a fan in it was it for cooling. The humidity brings out the bugs, mosquitoes and ants mostly. We did have a gecko join us in bed last night so that was fun trying to capture it so my wife would relax. In other news, the machine keeps grinding away. Mass shootings are becoming common in the US. I decided to buy a gun, and am waiting to go pick it up. I have some rifles but I want at least one handgun. Im a Christian and have some reservations about getting a gun simply for protection, ( i wont be hunting with it ) but my thought is if I could stop someone from killing more people then so be it. Where I work we have had 3 seperate incidents in a years time of a disgruntled employee trying to come in the building with a gun. Everyone is on edge. A few weeks ago my neighbor was tripping out about me walking in his yard, we've been neighbors for 20 years. Look forward to your next letter.
Spring has sprung here in the dusty interior of British Columbia as well. It was touch and go with threat of wildfire already looming by mid April, but the rain has come and things are green and “lush”. Certainly not as green and lush as Ireland. I can’t imagine having to beat back that kind of growth! Here we employ some horses and a flock of sheep and they do a fine job! Enjoy your time away, it always make coming home so special.
I especially enjoy Paul's writings on appropriate technology like the scythe and composting toilet.
Last essay? I’ve missed something. Is this Substack going away?
The series I began two years ago, tracing the grwoth of 'the Machine' comes to a natural end soon. But then there'll be a renewal. More on that in a month or so.
Paul, what's going on in Ireland with the proposed Bill 2022 re: removing personal sovereignty and instating invasive surveillance and censorship? Your government seeks to control the words you speak and the information on your computer. Will this extend into organized religion - some denominations are good and others must be banned?
Hey Paul- I’m curious about your theology- and particularly your relationship to the Romanian Orthodox Church as dogmatic authority. My own theology doesn’t have any room for magisteriums, Rabbinates, or other authoritative human bodies- though tradition gets a strong vote. That said, this is an ongoing site of thought and struggle for me. Have you written about this anywhere? Can you point to a book that reflects your theology or the tradition you follow? Or do you want to take a shot at summing it up in the comments section? Lol. I’d appreciate anything you can share about this to satisfy my curiosity and maybe spark conversation.
Well, I'm an Orthodox Christian, and I wrote about why in the essay below. I've not written anything about Orthodoxy in particular, not least because I'm very new to it. But I cleave to the tradition of the church and the path laid down. I used to reject all authority, in a very modern way. Later I realised that following a real tradition brings freedom. I may write more on this.
https://www.firstthings.com/article/2021/06/the-cross-and-the-machine
I think it would be great if you did. I’ve thought about theology for decades, myself, and I’ve been through phases where I did follow traditions or authorities (I was a monk when I was younger, for instance). Yet ultimately I found I couldn’t submit myself to an authority on dogma- so I’ve tended towards following traditions where there is latitude for free thought in recent years. In the Christian world an example of this would be the Anglican Church, both historically and currently- but I’m not sure how this functions in the Orthodox Church and I’m curious about that. Is the Orthodox Church more about orthopraxy with room for differing opinions? and also curious how you yourself handle a controversial dogma. Like for instance, jumping right in- what do you think about hell?
By the way, I read and enjoyed that essay.
"I’m not sure how this functions in the Orthodox Church and I’m curious about that. Is the Orthodox Church more about orthopraxy with room for differing opinions?"
We don't seperate the Liturgical life from dogma, they are are intertwined. The idea that a religious institution should be neutral or non-commital on dogma and allow individual opinions to prevail is a hangup of the modern West. There is a hint of fear there in modern man that he might have to submit to something other than his own tastes, whims and weaknesses. Given we view man's spiritual nous as being substantially impacted by our alienation from God since the fall, we don't put the intellectual speculation of fallen individuals at the core of anything. That said, there is no requirement for every member of the Church to be a theologian; most people are not and don't need to be one. Orthodox spiritual life also emphasises the point of gradual and steady progression. Diving into the deepest ascetic literature or dogmas that are beyond our current level of comprehension is not going to serve anyone well. There is the risk of self-delusion and/or despondency. There needs to be some humility and patience together with recognition that one is not the arbiter of everything and cannot simply demand an understanding of all dogma before one has even begun living the spiritual life.
I would recommend reading some St Sophrony who wrote extensively for Westerners on matters of dogma and the spiritual life. The following are some citations from his books:
"There are three things that I do not understand: (1) faith without dogma; (2) Christianity without the Church: (3) Christianity without asceticism. And these three – the Church, doctrine and asceticism (that is, Christian asceticism) – form for me one single life."
"When our mind is free from passions, our nature which was deformed by the Fall is restored to its former beauty. If we are in God's likeness, revelations become normal phenomena for us. The Christian way consists in filling our mind and heart with the higher knowledge of God."
"Without the spirit of repentance, without the experience of true obedience, one cannot become a true theologian or priest, that is, a person capable of teaching the Christian way."
"Theological science, which is taught in academic institutions and has become intellectual specialisation open to all, does not give knowledge of God. Knowledge of God comes from life in God, which is born in the deepest place of the heart."
Well said! Concise, to the point, and absolutely true! I cannot understand how or why someone would choose to worship a god largely constructed of their own idiosyncratic desires.
Well, I did. That was exactly what I wanted! The trappings of Christianity, but on my terms. It has been very humbling to see that about myself. And tbh I see it everywhere, even outside of what we call religion. Lots of self-worship these days. People are creating their own self (I identify as x, y, and z) as their god.
"The cult of me" as I often refer to it. Everyone desperately seeking an identity, a reason for being, primarily because they are being sold it by the machine.
It's perfectly ok to just be. But that doesn't ring the cash tills.
Love this comment. I spent 10 years as an Episcopalian, and recently converted to Orthodoxy. From my current vantage point, it sure does look like my own pride was getting in the way a lot. I wanted to choose which parts of Christianity to believe, finding the parts about sexuality and the role of females a bit troubling for example. Christ had other plans for me. This is a religion of humility. May we all who are called find our way towards Christ.
Nikola, as someone new to Orthodoxy, still very much at the toe dipping stage, so much of that resonates strongly. This part especially, as for me:
"The idea that a religious instituion should be neutral or non-commital on dogma and allow individual opinions to prevail is a hangup of the modern West. There is a hint of fear there in modern man that he might have to submit to something other than his own tastes, whims and weaknesses."
For me at least it sums up why Orthodoxy is very much at odds with much of Western Liberal thinking. If you can't get past "the cult of me" it's going to be a tough gig, I'd suggest.
Never say never though. I've certainly changed my outlook quite dramatically in the last 6 months and I never expected to be where I am now.
I simply meant that you can never say with absolute certainty that your views won't change.
Well said Andrew and Nikola, describes beautifully aspects of my journey/pilgrimage, thanks, God bless.
The depiction of the Church as an ark, an ark of salvation, is most instructive.
I also, personally, have always appreciated the depiction of the Orthodox Church as a "spiritual hospital", with all that this implies.
For me, the ark indicates that "we are in this together."
For a cat, this is hard to grasp.
Nikola, is there a specific St. Sophrony collection/title you might recommend?
Hi Mark,
There are quite a few that are relevant. The classic is "St Silouan the Athonite" which is a biography by St Sophrony of his spiritual father. "We Shall See Him As He Is" is St Sophrony's spiritual autobiography.
If you benefit from those books then I would also recommend "On Prayer" and "Truth and Life".
Nikola
Thank you, Nikola. Much appreciated.
> revelations become normal phenomena for us
Yeah, I'm there already, and I didn't follow any dogma. Of course, an Orthodox Christian would say I am in prelest, but the trouble with that is that most likely they would also say all the other religions are essentially prelest as well, which is why I cannot accept that view.
That's not an argument against Orthodoxy or Christianity, its just the declaration of a personal preference for moral relativism. To dismiss a world view unless it concedes in advance that world views which are contrary to it can also be correct is the same as saying you won't accept that any world view can be correct. It's circular reasoning.
There are more positions than moral absolutism and moral relativism. There can be many valid moralities and many invalid ones.
Matthew, as an Orthodox convert of 25 years out of the Episcopal Church, and with a Charismatic/Pentecostal background prior to that, I can say that probably the best thing I've read on the subject of authority in the Orthodox Church is Georges Florovsky's book "Bible, Church, Tradition: An Eastern Orthodox View." Unfortunately out of print, copies to purchase are expensive but it's relatively easy to find via interlibrary loan.
Thank you Rob.
Looks like Amazon has a Kindle version.
Matthew, I concur with Rob that this Florovsky book is the best I have found on this topic. Truly magisterial and well-balanced. I paid a lot money for my copy years ago but it was well worth it. I rejoice to see that Amazon now has a Kindle version for $4.99. One way or another, read it.
Matthew, as faithful (and orthodox) Orthodox layman, I somewhat identify with your mistrust in magisterial formulae. Contrary to impression that recent converts sometimes give, the Orthodox Church dogmatizes as little as possible. We do not have anything like the Roman Catholic magisterium. For example, we do not have a doctrine of Transubstantiation, but neither do we have alternate theory of our own to explain the mystery of the Eucharist. We simply say affirm it is body of Christ and worship it and eat it as such.
Official dogma for us consists of the Holy Scriptures themselves and the decisions of a handful of ecumenical councils. Those councils, by the way, were called for in response to the rise of certain heresies. The Fathers of those councils were forced by circumstances to fence off positions that would undermine the essence of the gospel of Jesus Christ. It was a defensive maneuver, not an offensive one. Dogmatizing for its own sake and idle squabbling over what is purely theoretical is not encouraged in the Orthodox Church. Not that there aren't plenty of armchair theologians in our ranks who love doing those things, but this is not really in the spirit of Orthodoxy, and they really ought to get back to praying and serving others, which is the true work of a Christian. For more on this, I recommend Thinking Orthodox, by Eugenia Scarvelis Constantinou.
The concept of not knowing, explaining or rationalising, but just accepting, is one of Orthodoxy's attractions. You don't spend forever theorizing, you just accept it, pick up your cross and live it.
It's perfectly ok not to know everything.
This is why I love Orthodoxy.
I am geeky. I am an academic. I spend way too much time in my head. I don't want to debate theology.
I LOVE that I can go and do the rituals that have been done for a thousand years and just trust in that.
As we say here in the North of England, "if it ain't bust (broken), don't fix it".
The fact that other forms of Christianity keep trying to adapt to and become acceptable to the modern world, often going against their beliefs in the process, is one of the biggest turn offs for me.
As Paul and others have repeatedly shown, it's the modern world that could learn so much from ancient wisdom, especially (but not exclusively) when it comes to trashing their own habitat.
Where's the wisdom in that?!
Thanks for the book recomendation!
Thanks for all the comments everyone. My own experience with spiritual authority is not in the Church- I was a Buddhist monk when I was younger, and I am Jewish and have tried to live a (somewhat leftwing) Orthodox Jewish lifestyle in the past. I understand the power and attractiveness of letting a (theoretically) more spiritually advanced Rabbinate guide your practice and outlook- actually I find Orthodox Jewish and Christian perspectives on authority, tradition and practice very, very similar in a number of ways. I have also experienced the issues with this model, issues I suspect are also present in the Orthodox Church. In any case, I am authentically curious and interested in these issues and was not intending a critique of the Orthodox Church, and certainly not a defense of full scale individualistic modernism or spiritual chaos.
Matthew, I think a good place for you to begin besides reading the New Testament and talking to God about this Jesus thing would be to examine the Nicene Creed as an early example of tradition/authority/dogma. I came out of a Buddhist/Hindu/ New Age meditative medley. In response to my reading of the New Testament and what I believe was the experience of the Holy Spirit confirming Jesus as the Way I received Jesus. I then examined the Nicene Creed and felt it was a good reflection of the Biblical teachings and also fit my own experience of the Triune God. I know three Jewish women who each had Jesus appear to them. Those encounters didn’t end with Paul on the road to Damascus. One of them is now in her upper nineties and was my neighbor for over twenty years. She has been a Christian for more than forty years since her encounter. Blessings!
I notice that nobody responded to your very specific question about Hell. Come on Orthodox folks. Don't leave all the specifics up to the Baptists to articulate!
I printed this essay and keep it in my Bible. I read it every now and then. It’s a lovely testimony to a curious life and an open mind. I’ve sent it to several friends.
I've just re read it for the 4th time and every time I go back to it, more of it makes total sense.
It's a great piece and I must confess to recognising much of my own journey in it.
If you haven't seen it already, you might find Fowler and Peck's Stages of Faith (in Peck's Different Drum) helpful. Stage 3 is a questioning/rebellious stage where dogma is dropped, but then comes stage 5 the Mystic who "values religious tradition, but holds it's institutions lightly, investing in the vision of divinity offered by a tradition, but not necessarily the trappings. Dogma and discipline may be useful fodder for contemplation, but for mystics, all of this is subordinate to the essential Mystery....." this is from a useful summary of the stages of faith in The Way of Thomas by John R Mabry
So excited you're being hosted by UnHerd. I love watching their discussions/debates/interviews. I will definitely be watching the recordings from my home in Montreal, Canada.
"Tomorrow I’ll be in Romania, talking to a group of Orthodox theologians and priests about the Machine. I never thought I’d find myself writing a sentence like that, but life is full of surprises."
Enjoyed that :)
It seems to me that we are very uncomfortable with a particular aspect of Jesus. It's like we wish he was something other than what was actually described in the Gospels. I wrote about it here:
https://squarecircle.substack.com/p/we-have-never-seen-jesus
Dare to think for yourself and walk your own path. Dead on, sir. Seems plain enough to me that the Jesus we've all been handed is a spurious one, carefully curated to serve mind-controlling interests. "Gospel of Thomas says what? Can't put that in the Bible!"
Since the message of Jesus was an unstoppable pure blast of love that had ample power to enable human beings to throw off all chains of fear-based, authoritarian domination and control, theologians got busy neutering and de-clawing it. No doubt they'd rather he'd been left out of the books altogether had this been possible.
God is within all of us. So is the devil. To love-based, peaceful, wild and free minds J is one and the same with god. No big deal there. Fear-based, inhibited, warlike and controlled people see him as a devil whose presence threatens to bring about chaos and anarchy. In order to stop Jesus, state and religious institutions had to put on his robes, impersonate him, usurp his power and call it their own. (Constantine, et al). This is modern religion, total scam.
All organized ruling institutions, religious or not, are fear-based, authoritarian implements of mind-control designed to keep human beings miserable, self-loathing, suspicious of each other and spiritually lost in order to weaken our natural inclination to seek out and come to know the divine. Thus weakened, we are then easily enslaved to serve commercial interests and rally around the state. We then patriotically throw our sons (and now daughters), into the bloody maw of war. We come to worship brute power and heartlessly clamber and claw over each other for financial gain.
Take a look at the world today and it's like Jesus had never walked the earth. We killed him back then and we sure as hell would kill him if he showed up now. But yet, as always, in good times or bad, unquenchable love spirit is still here with us, clandestine, incognito, celebrating in quiet corners, tending to the resilient wounded and bringing cool water to sincere seekers of truth.
Crucify me for saying this, but one of the worst places to go looking for the holy spirit as powerfully expressed and embodied by the man Jesus, is inside a church. Orthodox Christian ones included. The temple is you. The human body, which was "torn down and rebuilt inside 3 days". Everything, everyone is holy. Only in ones' deceived/controlled mind is this not so. Churches be damned. No one but you can find the love within you and then go out & powerfully live it.
'Crucify me for saying this, but one of the worst places to go looking for the holy spirit as powerfully expressed and embodied by the man Jesus, is inside a church. Orthodox Christian ones included. The temple is you.'
I don't think you'll be crucified for saying that. It's the standard modern formulation: what someone above called 'the cult of me.' It's wrong though. 'The temple is you' is precisely what Lucifer advocates; every other spiritual tradition I know of warns against this attitude too. Today it leads directly into the church of transhumanism. Slavery posing as liberation.
Bit wary about engaging, Paul. Last time you lobbed a handful of dirt in my face rather than answer a simple question, one we both know the answer to: once we rescue the "smartphone monk" from your "discernment" ie, your determination that the phone in his hand means there must be something not right with him, then the your entire essay falls apart.
This indicates to me you are a dirty "fighter". If you are interested in engaging with me honestly here on this new one, let me know. I'm ready to get into it with you.
I don't lob dirt. Only opinion and perspectives - just like you. I explained my perspective last time around: you disagreed. Fair enough. But you have a very aggressive and black and white way of engaging. 'We both know the answer' to your question, you say. No: we have a very different perspective on what the question even is. That would be the interesting point to dig into, rather than seeking some kind of victory in battle.
You do it again here. 'Churches be damned', you say. Well, OK: but I don't think you can write a comment of the kind you just did - a comment which is deliberately provocative - and then act wounded when you meet with disagreement.
Personally I don't 'fight' at all. Actually I despise the attitude which seeks 'fights' in places like this. It's one reason I'm on Substack rather than Twitter. What I like is conversations. So you're right: let's not 'get into it.' Phrases like that set the ground for war. I long ago walked away from that kind of thing.
Ha! Alright then. Wise move, Paul, to recognize the shaky ground you are on. I won't chase you further down into your hiding place. Careful with your assumptions.
Point proven. Take care now.
Huzzah for another Salon! I have been thinking about The Machine, but also machines generally, and how technological revolutions are followed by decades (or centuries) in which humans wrestle with who we are in relation to them.
Each new technology seems to bring about near-term radical responses, both for and against, along with long term changes that are deeper and more transformative. And yet, after these sometimes cataclysmic changes, the humans who strive and struggle in our oldest writings and poetry are recognizable to us today. There is renewal in the aftermath, as springtime reminds us.
And so I’m wondering, once we are many years further along in the age of The Machine, which human attributes will still be recognizable, as they have been after new technologies such as writing, printing, electronic communication, and computing? What core of our humanity remains constant even as everything once familiar is swept away?
I think despite (or in spite of) everything, humans remain human. We will always be what we are. I don't think we're at the cusp of such a revolutionary moment where humanity will stop being itself and become something other to itself.
I think what's more likely to happen is that people in the 2060s will look at our addiction to our phones the way we look at the prevalence of smoking in the 1930s-70s.
I tend to lean toward the same view, though on the other side I do still wonder if at some point we’re going to push a big red button and do something we can’t undo. I mostly used to worry about that with nuclear weapons, but digital media and AI seem much more threatening lately.
That's because we interact with them daily. Last year during the early weeks of the war in Ukraine, we were closer to nuclear war than anytime in the last forty years. And, uh, that would've been real bad!
I think the digitization of our lives has been almost universally detrimental to humanity, but I also think it's simpler to solve, especially if governments pursue Antitrust more seriously. Which, in the US, is happening, slowly but surely. If the cases against Google, Facebook, and Amazon continue forward on the path they're currently on, it could lead to the breaking up of those companies. If we go one further and make it illegal to harvest data on users, the algorithms themselves begin to become useless.
If these companies can no longer sell our data to advertisers, there's less use to keeping people glued to their platforms all day. If they just shut off the algorithm, the internet would change dramatically overnight and it would likely become quite a bit more peaceful.
Of course, such a thing happening seems very remote right now, but I also think we're closer to it than we've ever been before.
Nothing quite compares to the return of pleasant weather. Been a long, long winter here in Minnesota, only just now turning towards spring, which will last about four days until it's summer.
Thinking about starting tennis for my son because it's all he wants to do these days. I'm not a tennis player myself so I'm not sure where he picked up the notion, but should be fun enough.
We have a fairly long Spring here in England. It’s not always perfect weather-wise but you can feel the change. Then the summer comes and stays a while. We still get some rain most years, and it doesn’t get mega hot. We also get some summers that really don’t feel much like summer, with too much rain. But then I guess that’s how we get to live in ‘Englands Green and Pleasant Land’.
I think there’s probably no perfect place to live climate-wise. Embrace your local stuff I guess.
There's always Ireland, where you sometimes get all four seasons in the same day!
The Spring is my favourite time of year also Paul. We are in South West Wales and it's been rather slow coming this year. Colder and wetter. Still, yes the Swallows are back and strangely the Primroses have been rampant with hundreds of seedlings all over the garden. My wife teases them all out and divides the larger ones and then replants them along the verges and the local park. Not all is rosy in the garden though. We have a male Blackbird who has claimed the holly tree above my garden chair. He sings his heart out nearly all day and has been for weeks. But has yet to find a wife.:( Such an accomplished singer as well.
I know I am not to covet my neighbor's land, nor his wildlife, nor his moss-covered rocks...but wow, what a temptation to covet! Thanks for sharing the beauty of your area!
Your subject line immediately transported me to the May festival that Buccmaster and his companions run across on their way to Stamford in The Wake. :) Thanks for that.
When I was keeping bees, I loved watching the clover grow with each day and watching those workers dutifully forage from sun-up to sun down. Enjoy these next few weeks.
The news found me this morning that the U.S. would soon lift travel restrictions for the unvaccinated. I hope this proves true and also allows you to travel and speak in the U.S. If so, please travel to the great state of Georgia. We Southerners are known for our hospitality.
Be careful! ; )
https://gaty.substack.com/p/prepare-for-a-summer-of-death
And don’t forget Idaho! I could round up a packed venue for you!
“The vision of the greening land always fills me with joy. The swallows are back, the nights are still and the world still works. Given the dark content of the last couple of essays, it’s good to go outside and get some perspective. “
Here in Alaska, this is also extremely, extraordinarily true. Nature still turns around us, while we fret inside our small, at times chaotic, minds. Glad to know I’m not the only one who finds that sometimes the best prescription for the issue, whatever it may be, is to simply go outside. Glad you’re traveling and taking extra time for essays and enjoying greenery - excited about it all!
You’re from Alaska! I literally just finished listening to beautiful story of Matushka Olga. If you haven’t heard of her, you must!
https://youtu.be/2qSF1wCh95k
Thank you, Shari! I will check her out!
Here in the SE US ( Georgia ) its already starting to swelter. Will rain for a few minutes and then the sun comes out and its a steambath. Will be a long summer but were accustomed to it. Growing up here we had no AC. Open a window and stick a fan in it was it for cooling. The humidity brings out the bugs, mosquitoes and ants mostly. We did have a gecko join us in bed last night so that was fun trying to capture it so my wife would relax. In other news, the machine keeps grinding away. Mass shootings are becoming common in the US. I decided to buy a gun, and am waiting to go pick it up. I have some rifles but I want at least one handgun. Im a Christian and have some reservations about getting a gun simply for protection, ( i wont be hunting with it ) but my thought is if I could stop someone from killing more people then so be it. Where I work we have had 3 seperate incidents in a years time of a disgruntled employee trying to come in the building with a gun. Everyone is on edge. A few weeks ago my neighbor was tripping out about me walking in his yard, we've been neighbors for 20 years. Look forward to your next letter.
Equally hot in South Carolina. I also grew up without air conditioning. It’s pretty warm this afternoon so I must water the tomatoes. Be careful.
Your very own stone circle *plus* Runner Ducks?
Paul, you truly are living the dream! 😄
I know it!
Spring has sprung here in the dusty interior of British Columbia as well. It was touch and go with threat of wildfire already looming by mid April, but the rain has come and things are green and “lush”. Certainly not as green and lush as Ireland. I can’t imagine having to beat back that kind of growth! Here we employ some horses and a flock of sheep and they do a fine job! Enjoy your time away, it always make coming home so special.