For some reason It does not work for me anymore...I like a lot of the comments I read but can't respond affirmatively...not sure why? Someone said use a different browser but that didn't work either..
I just saw that a new Charles Taylor was published back in the end of May. The title is, Cosmic Connections: Poetry in the Age of Disenchantment and here is part of the description of its content:
Reacting to the fall of cosmic orders that were at once metaphysical and moral, the Romantics used the symbols and music of poetry to recover contact with reality beyond fragmented existence. They sought to overcome disenchantment and groped toward a new meaning of life. Their accomplishments have been extended by post-Romantic generations into the present day. Taylor's magisterial work takes us from H lderlin, Novalis, Keats, and Shelley to Hopkins, Rilke, Baudelaire, and Mallarm , and on to Eliot, Milosz, and beyond.
In seeking deeper understanding and a different orientation to life, the language of poetry is not merely a pleasurable presentation of doctrines already elaborated elsewhere. Rather, Taylor insists, poetry persuades us through the experience of connection. The resulting conviction is very different from that gained through the force of argument. By its very nature, poetry's reasoning will often be incomplete, tentative, and enigmatic. But at the same time, its insight is too moving--too obviously true--to be ignored.
He’s getting up there in years, but maybe you could have a conversation about this with him and post it on YouTube? I think it would be most interesting.
That's quite a find, thanks for mentioning it! Every other person I speak with about belief lately has mentioned "After Virtue," and if I'm going to go full Taylor-neophyte, then "Cosmic Connections" will also go on the list.
”After Virtue” is actually Macintyre but both men are so worth reading. Taylor is most known for ”A Secular Age”. I benefitted greatly from hos ”Modern Social Imaginaries”.
Sounds like at least half the people you’ve been bumping into have good taste in deep thinkers :)
Ah -- I'm glad I used the word neophyte above, since I was unknowingly going to prove that word myself. They'll both be on the list, that's no worry at all. Thanks!
Bought it back when it first came out after seeing a review or two, but haven't had time to start it yet due to other reading commitments. Then I saw that a new book by Wm. Cavanaugh had appeared back in January (not sure how I missed it), ordered it, and have now dropped everything to read it -- it's supposed to arrive today. The gist of it is that we're not so much suffering from disenchantment but from "bad" enchantment -- idolatry. The previous books of his that I've read have been excellent and I don't expect any less from this one.
Hadn't seen the Cavanaugh book - it's surely great. I read Being Consumed and he was actually here at my seminary many years ago and lectured on the myth of religious violence. I read his Being Consumed and enjoyed it thoroughly.
Paul, I just wanted to say thank you for the "Orthodoxy for Beginners" post a couple of weeks ago. I've been reading Kallistos Ware, but I am grateful for a few other suggestions to look into.
My question for other readers: I've been going to liturgy pretty consistently for about a year and a half. I love it. I've been able to bring my kids a few times. But any ideas others have for encouraging a spouse or other family members to try it out would be greatly appreciated! (Or maybe that's not the way, I don't know. Just curious how others have gone about approaching someone who is reluctant to try attending a Divine Liturgy on Sunday.)
Good morning to you. I was Chrismated almost 4 years ago. I was someone who was floundering in my faith until my younger brother introduced me to Orthodoxy. I was shocked, surprised and now grateful! My husband was raised RC and left the church many years ago. I have introduced him to Liturgy but he is shut off to it. My heart is saddened by this but I also know that I am not called to evangelize. I can only be a good example and pray that his heart will open to the truth and beauty of Orthodoxy. Joyful to hear about your journey, God bless you as you move forward.
Yes Paul's 'Orthodoxy for Beginners" is excellent.
Glory to God that you're attending liturgy. Participation is even better than study. God willing you might enter the church in His good time.
We've had some enquirers at our church faced with similar issues re family. Rather than pushing to have family and friends attend liturgy, we instead made sure they were all invited to whatever parish event, festival, meal (fellowship after communion). Eventually they came. It has been a lovely, gentle way to show them hospitality without expectations, beneficial for several families who are now Orthodox. Remember the importance of prayers and patience.
One of our most beloved parishoners waited ten years for his formerly protestant wife to 'come and see'. He says he never urged her. He's now studying for the priesthood and his now Orthodox wife and all their children never miss church.
If you join the church, and faithfully walk the path she has laid out for you, then slowly you will be transformed and this transformation will be obvious to people around you. (Look at Paul!). Without trying, you will light the way for others.
I second this. Invite them to join for the 'second half' or our services. Arrive in time for coffee hour, join for feast day celebrations, In my experience, no one will judge them for missing the service. Everyone will be glad they are there in that moment.
I’m in a similar position to you - recently joined the Orthodox Church myself but husband and daughter are unsure. My husband is open to coming to Divine Liturgy but our daughter is more ambivalent.
I’ll share the saint of the day with my daughter and she sometimes hovers nearby when I say my prayers. My approach is not to force anything but to keep them both in my prayers and try to bring the light of Christ into our home.
The only thing that was able to get my parents and siblings to come was the baptism of my kids. So they've attended 4 services over the last decade :) Unfortunately, they remain almost completely disinterested. For my part, I've decided to take a very hands off approach as most of our conversations are unprofitable and instead rely on prayer. I could only explain so many different times and ways, "No, we don't worship Mary..." before it became obvious they weren't really listening or trying to understand. The gap my conversation a decade ago has caused between us is a pain point, but I have to constantly remind myself that God loves them and desires their good far more than I am capable of.
My piece on the dangers of drugging millions of schoolchildren to sit still was spiked last minute by a major publication for being “too philosophical.” So I made it even more philosophical and put it here: how drugging children can destroy their souls, their love, and their faith:
The spiritual void at the heart of Western Civilisation.. Big words, and Paul isn’t the type to use them lightly. Looking forward to the story of the conversion (and The Machine in print). As a fan since the early Dark Mountain days, and a non-Christian, I’m very curious about this, and the likely overlap with the big words above.
Concerning that supposed void, I stumbled upon a wonderful perspective this year; renowned religious scholar and mystic Peter Kingsley’s ‘A book of life’. Simple and grounded and playful and anecdotal, yet so momentous in scale and implication that it shook me profoundly.
Hi Andrea's, your message made me curious and I was reading about the book you mentioned. Then I came across Barry Long's" the Origins of Man and the Universe- the myth that came to life", have you read it or heard about it. Apparently Peter was a devotee of Barry. Sounds interesting too, right?
No I hadnt heard of him, but very intrigued after reading abit. Thanks for recommendation, added to reading list :) He is also very fond of Henry Corbin, who heavyweight Dark Mountaineer Martin Shaw also has a weak spot for.
Hi All, for the Feast of the Assumption today I’m writing about a recent frightening health ordeal I went through, surgery, fear, and the role the Blessed Virgin played in bringing me to faith after a lifetime of atheism.
Paul, a friend told me that you are scheduled to speak in Birmingham, AL in October. Is this so? Birmingham is not far from my neck of the woods in Franklin, Tennessee.
I have already purchased my ticket, and have been recommending it to family and friends at church. Odd that Paul did not include it in his upcoming US speaking engagements.
Ditto on the “Orthodoxy for Beginners “. I attend a reformed theological Baptist leaning church. I have contemplated on leaving my church and attending an Orthodox Church. I haven’t talked to my elders about it. I’m not sure I trust my feelings and motives. I do subscribe to Rod D’s, and Paul’s Substack so yes I’m probably influenced. I want to be in the “right” church and for God to find my worship pleasing. I don’t want to make this about me, but of course that’s easier said than done. I’ve been praying on it and will read the resources provided. I know there’s not a perfect church in theory, but perhaps I expect perfection even though any church with sinners gathering makes a church messy. Yes, it’s heaven I desire and I’m not very good at waiting I guess. I also don’t want to be a consumer of a church, something that in my opinion plagues the American evangelical church. Also, the individualistic American culture that makes us American for the good and the bad.
I would love to hear from anyone who left the Protestant church and what led you to the Orthodox Church.
I have a radically different understanding of Christianity than the Christians I know. I interpret the Bible as indigenous wisdom and live closely to Creation which fundamentally changes everything. Like, the parable of the Wild mustard seed has a totally different interpretation than the ones I've heard since I've gathered the seeds directly from their pods in the wilderness. No church that I've encountered uses this lens - the Bible as indigenous wisdom and knowing Creation physically (versus intellectually - which is what most churches offer. They do this because everyone is so separated from Creation in our industrialized world. I really can't fault them. They're just speaking through the lens their followers understand). I wrote an essay that summarizes this if you're interested: https://divinenature.substack.com/p/stumbling-our-way-back
With this lens, I do not expect to be fed at any church. And I don't expect to be understood either. I've learned to not care about theological differences. My church role is to volunteer with children's ministry during the service and just enjoy everyone. I don't know much about orthodoxy, but going to an Orthodox church isn't' an option for me since there isn't one nearby anyways (I live on an island; we don't get to pick from a buffet of churches).
I had a humbling experience recently. I was listening to a native Hawaiian woman passionately pray and she said: "I pray against diabetes, gangs, murder, and drug overdoses." Wow. The reformed people I've been around for years do not pray like that because their lives don't include those tragedies. And that got me wondering about how many of the different Christian factions might be subtly linked to class, educational level, and intellectual ability. No one talks about this...because it's umm...really uncomfortable... but this woman's genuine prayer just hit me and I can't stop thinking about it.
Yes, I hear you. I know Jesus loves his church and I think wants us to gather in his name. My challenge is I often get in the way and make it about me. I have so much modernity in me that I forgot or struggle with the power of the Holy Spirit and also get jaded on other members in the church forgetting they’re sinners and their good deeds are filthy rags. I guess I fail to love well. The tension between grace and law is always pulling me and I can go to either extreme.
Friend, I am moved by your honesty. It is an honor for me to read your thoughts. Remember that God's overwhelming love for you is more you can even handle (flaws and all) and He would do anything, and I mean anything, to never never lose you. Wherever you go to church, you are a gift to that community because you're a child of God. We all fail to love well.
And that got me wondering about how many of the different Christian factions might be subtly linked to class, educational level, and intellectual ability. No one talks about this...because it's umm...really uncomfortable...
This!!! I couldn’t agree with you more. You’re a real thinker and it’s so encouraging.
I was on the mission field going into Romania when I first encountered Orthodoxy (as Romania is like 85% Orthodox!). I'd been to Bible school and considered myself fairly well read, but I knew virtually nothing about the Orthodox Church. I stumbled across a copy of "The Orthodox Way" by Kallistos Ware and it set me on a journey of discovery. Initially, it was the historical claims and continuity of faith along with the beauty and reverence of the services that captured me. It was a long journey (a decade) of questions, struggling, doubt and even walking away from all things Christian for a season. I quickly learned enough to feel like I couldn't remain Protestant, but not enough to feel ready to plant my flag in the Orthodox Church, so I remained in a sort of no man's land torn between the two for a long time. In retrospect, I think part of the reason it took me so long and why it was such a painful process (indeed and existential crisis!) was my felt need for absolute certainty. I felt that I needed to be able to answer every question and to resolve every doubt before I could become Orthodox. After 10 years of reading and study and still not reaching that point, I realized that was a pipe dream. I ultimately found myself with St. Peter saying, "Where else can I go?"
It's only after the passage of time having been Orthodox that I came to realize that the knowing was only to be found in the doing, participatory knowledge. Not unlike being married. You can go to all the premarital counseling you want, read all the top rated books on being married and interview all the married people you know, but you won't truly know what it is until you're married and in the fray of the daily struggles, challenges and blessings that come. Orthodox is no different. It's a life to be lived, not a set of ideas to be assented to. Pray the prayers, participate in the Feasts and fasts, attended the services. This is the best advice I can give.
Thank you. Karen Armstrong has written about the importance in religious devotion of practice (as distinct from cogitation/belief). In The Case for God, if I remember correctly.
I was Lutheran and was chrismated earlier this year. Up until last year I have been just researching to better understand the Old Testament and the Ancient Near East context of scriptures. I was increasingly convinced that our modern churches do not do a good job of reflecting the fullness of the faith. I wanted to go to church, but when I went I found myself not ever really drawn in, something was missing. I encountered Orthodoxy when I started listening to the Lord of Spirits podcast and within a few episodes, I realized I had to go to a Divine Liturgy. They talked about so many things that I hadn't been able to get answered in Protestantism and experience in church. So I finally went, and it was beyond what I expected. I had to go back again and again, and before I knew it, I was a catechumen. It is difficult to explain, it is something you have to experience. It is a rich and full faith, and the Holy Spirit is there.
I was raised reformed Presbyterian, and learning TULIP (five-point Calvinism) when I was fourteen pretty much destroyed my hope in the goodness of God. I left the church at that point, and never considered it again until I was pregnant with my first son. Motherhood saved me; I finally understood what it meant to love, and I understood that if I, being the selfish asshole that I am, could be so completely swamped with love for my child, I really didn't need to worry about the goodness of God any more. Since then it's just been a process of elimination, moving upstream - continental Protestantism was already out, so I attended an Episcopal church for a while, but they are so far off the map I found it hard to take seriously. Next up: small o-orthodox Anglican, which was lovely, and reverent, and had the most beautiful music I've ever heard. I might have stayed if they hadn't fallen apart during covid, but they did; the church can't be afraid. I knew I couldn't be Roman Catholic, and I'd eliminated all the Protestant options - there was only one place left. It's farther away, both geographically and culturally, but it's the only thing that is internally coherent, and I was chrismated in 2023. It was a long and painful journey to reach the end of the line, but I am thankful to be here - I can't get any farther upstream, so here I will spend the rest of my days.
I converted to the Orthodox Church 14 years ago, after being in Protestant churches for many decades. I liked knowing that the Orthodox were carrying on the tradition of the apostles more than anyone else, and many other things that were "right" about it, but in the end, I attended enough services that I fell in love, and knew it was Home. It took me another seven years to get baptized, though!
I was Protestant and became Orthodox last year. Protestantism for me was missing something, dry. Like the Bible says, 'having a form of Godliness but denying its power'. I felt guilty for not going but didn't want to go. Providence blocked my baptism in the Protestant church. I felt like I needed to decide once and for all on what I believed and who I am. I read one of Paul's essays 'The Age of Antichrist is already here' and it expressed something I was thinking but couldn't put into words. I found out he was Orthodox after trying all sorts of other things and asked him why Orthodoxy. He said 'Go and see for yourself'. I did. The Liturgy was in Greek, but I knew when I left the building that this was it. I can't explain why. I know with every ounce of my being that this is the one true Church. I can't wait to get there and I don't want to leave. I am home!
Hi Buddy. I was raised Catholic and left it in college in the midst of the Jesus Movement - even though I was a serious Catholic, I thought Evangelical Christians had a better, more direct relationship with Jesus and interpretation of Scripture. There I remained for about three decades, in nearly every flavor of "conservative" Evangelicalism, including the Vineyard (my best experience of it all). It was when I got into my mid-40s, after living more of life and becoming a parent, that some questions began to come forward into my consciousness. Evangelical theology (and to some extent folk religion kinds of views therein) had competing answers to my questions, and painted a picture of God that I started to see made me very uneasy in several ways. It was not like I was looking for "The Authority" - aren't we supposed to be able to understand these things because of the Holy Spirit within us? It was more that I got tired of all the arguing and nit-picking with such vastly different theological opinions. Underneath my intellectual uneasiness, I had always been drawn to seeking the manner and place in which God wanted me to worship. I also decided to start reading the Christian writings from before the Schism. Some of that was helpful; I didn't yet understand the differences in definition of theological terms as understood by ancient Christians and as understood by Protestants.
This was the time that the Emerging Church movement was gathering steam. I sensed I needed an actual prayer rule, which the Northumbria Community provided in a gentle, direct and Celtic saints-inspired way (the saints were my friends when I was a Catholic child, and they were praying me back to Classical Christianity, I'm convinced!). It was also when I was introduced to Dallas Willard, and to N.T. Wright. Willard convinced me that God actually truly is good. Wright opened up the first century in such a way that I felt like I finally understood the NT, esp Paul. There was a wholeness about that picture that left Evangelical theology in the dust. At the same time I was trying to find an Emerging Church group with which I could be aligned, primarily because of the creativity and God-thirst of their worship experiences (Northumbria was a great blessing, but the members and activities are primarily in England), I was finding out more and more about Orthodoxy, mostly via the Internet (which it took a while to wade through), but also through a very articulate Orthodox person on an email list devoted to discussing Wright's ideas. There is a lot of overlap between how Wright interprets the message of the NT and the Orthodox view; Wright understands the early Christian definitions of theological terms, which helped me a lot. My email list friend also directed me to the work of Margaret Barker, which firmly ties in the worship aspect of Judaism to what is going on in the Orthodox Liturgy and Pascha. By the time I started reading Fr Stephen Freeman's blog not long after he began it, I was coming to see that God was probably directing me to Orthodoxy. Reading Fr Stephen brought it all together for me - so much of what he writes simply grabs both my intellect and my heart. I'm one of those semi-fortunate souls who read my way into the Church. I knew Orthodoxy was "out there", but for most of my life I thought it was just the Catholic Church in Greek. I had to have my questions answered in such a way that I was able to see the seamlessness of the whole big picture of Orthodoxy, how the experience/practice is the expression of the theology. Just as leaving the Catholic Church for Evangelical Protestantism was a matter of conscience for me in my 20s, entering Orthodoxy was a matter of conscience for me in my 50s, even though I didn't have every theological detail worked out. There was just too much in Orthodox theology and anthropology that I knew to be real.
The difficulty for me was that the nearest Church is an hour away from where I live, so I didn't attend a Liturgy until I was ready to pound on the door to be let in :) The drive is very pleasant, through forest and vineyards, so not onerous at all. I am very grateful for Wright, and I also suspect most people don't have to go through him. If one one academically inclined, there are very good Orthodox scholars out there. Of course, the experience of Orthodox worship is different than the reading about it, but I was not disappointed. My husband, however, was, being still a committed Evangelical. I was chrismated in 2009, after all our kids were out of the house, which was a good thing. Between then and now he has set foot in the church building exactly once. But somewhere along the way he finally decided that I'm still a Christian :) He's had a lot of patience with me. I talk about Orthodox stuff to him if I think he's willing to listen, but he has a conscience, too, and I'm not willing to upset that, so I'm not trying to bring him to conversion. God meets all of us where we are, always working to bring us to Himself no matter what.
When my husband and I, longtime evangelical Protestant Christians, moved to a new place, we spent several years trying to find a church home. We attended several Protestant churches, and we began to see a pattern that had eluded us before: the services were heavily dependent on the preaching skills of the pastor. That began to feel “off” to us for the first time. We began to question the purpose of church; surely it was to worship God rather than study Him? Alas, the worship music seemed more like attending a concert, complete with stage, lighting, and props in some cases. Its intent appeared to be to generate an emotional state, which something told us wasn’t equivalent to worship.
We found ourselves increasingly drawn to liturgy. We attended an Episcopal church for a while, but it was too difficult to pin down what they actually believed.
At the same time, a friend introduced us to Orthodoxy, which we began to read about. We were intrigued and attended an Orthodox Liturgy — and were so appalled it took a year before we attended another. The giant icon of Mary behind the altar, the incense, the chanting, the flat-out weirdness of everything — no thank you.
But something — Someone — kept pulling us back. We continued to read and pray and finally decided we needed to regularly attend an Orthodox Church to really give it an honest try. It was profoundly confusing and uncomfortable — disorienting, really — for a while, but we also realized something very profound and beautiful was happening there, so we stuck it out. Each time it felt as though we were stepping into an alternate reality, or actually a deeper one. “Blessed is the Kingdom …” it begins, the beginning of a journey into the eternal kingdom of God.
Eventually we became catechumens and joined. My husband was ready before I was — this wasn’t a lockstep journey — but we both got there in the end.
That was 26 years ago, and it’s been “further up and further in*” ever since. We are still learning what it means to be an Orthodox Christian and I suspect that will never end. That’s a good thing.
A double like!!! Wow, you nailed it. How resonating your experience is and what I’m currently thinking through. The skills of the Pastor!!! Yes, my church wanted a pastor with strong academic credentials and degrees in our Pastor search when our other Pastor disqualified himself several years ago.
I appreciate the time frame you mentioned. I think I have to jump right in. I don’t want to make a decision in haste based on my feelings. I have visited an Orthodox service, and I was lost. I plan to go again and keep it in prayer. I’m thankful for you and others sharing their love, encouragement, wisdom and journey about Orthodoxy.
It’s OK to feel lost at an Orthodox service. There’s a lot going on! My advice is to let go of trying to “do everything right” or even to understand what’s going on at first. We used the Liturgy books for a while, but they were a mixed blessing; we kept trying to figure out where we were. I would suggest just letting it all wash over you for a while. And pray! God be with you.
A glorious Feast of the Dormition of Our Most Holy Lady, the Theotokos and Ever-Virgin Mary to all here at the salon! Continually pray for us O Mother of Life!
A little thought has occurred to me. I have found some peace in it, which I think suggests its worth holding on to. I have been operating on a vision of what the parish church has been historically and I think I can safely say what it was supposed to be, which is in practice the center of a community. That parish model has felt the strain of machine living, as we commute in to attend then motor back to our busy lives, the majority of which are spent not only away from church, but away from each other. In the best cases, the parish is more of a visiting place than it is the real center of a community.
But this is thought occurred to me. We often talk of the home as "the little church", but I think in truth it is something more like a little monastery. We have all kind of been forced into what is in reality more of a monastic existence than a communitarian one. Rather than trying to overcome that transformation, it might be more fruitful to embrace it. Christianity has found different structures throughout history to adapt to changing circumstances: House churches, Catacombs, Parishes, Cathedrals, Desert Cells and Caves, Monasteries. As the role of the parish has changed in reality, on the ground, in our lives, and we are more isolated and without much connection in our geographical pods, something a little different might begin to emerge. A slightly new expression of the faith. This cannot be a replacement of the physical, liturgical worship that takes place together on Sundays, but maybe something that fills in the rest of the week differently than attending or not attending the nearly empty weekday services that greet most of us on a given morning or afternoon.
Well said, Daniel. I am intentionally embracing a monastic model for my home and 7 acres of land, and trying, in a failed clumsy manner, to create a small patch of beauty. Have you read, Timothy Patitis' "The Ethics of Beauty"?
When I had small children I remember the phrase "domestic monastery" floating around, and finding it a useful model. The children are nearly grown now, so a more solitary ascetic practice is required - perhaps helpful to think of home as a skete.
My mother passed a few years ago. Her large house had overgrown gardens. My siblings wanted me to purchase their shares, so I did, because she never threw anything away and so there was a lot of work to do (plus family memorabilia quite precious to me). I devoted the home to the Theotokos, filled it with icons and prayer, and regularly sprinkle holy water in the gardens, and have prayed for guidance for it all, especially the garden for the Theotokos. People now marvel over the gardens, including gardeners, arborist, etc. It is a refuge for prayer for me. Somehow God's help has kept this process affordable, creative, and finding good people to work with. A process ongoing. I encourage anyone to do this at whatever degree is possible. It has been a transformation that continues to amaze me and a fruit of the Spirit
This is an interesting reflection and "the something a little different might emerge'" something I also think about quite a bit. Just so long as we don't call it "New Things", which according to a righteous rant by Giles Fraser in an Unherd article today is now to replace the word 'church' in the contemporary Church of England.
I always have several books on the go: currently I’m reading “Propaganda” by Jacques Ellul, “Dominion” by Tom Holland, and “Time for God” by Fr. Jacques Philippe.
I’m listening to Tom Holland’s podcast series on the French Revolution - a great antidote to the Paris Olympics opening ceremony - as well as New Polity’s latest series on “The New Paganism” - here’s a link to the first episode: https://youtu.be/0TUYU0FbEmw?si=sH222v0BdzYB7GL2
Next up for reading is “The Politics of the Real” by D.C. Schindler. Hoping to start an in-person book club/study group in the fall!
I am training to be a social science methodologist and am currently exploring Dr. James Grice's articulation of a conceptual foundation for Psychology based on the work of Thomas Aquinas and Aristotle. In his book, Observation Oriented Modeling, he mentions how the first universities in Europe originated from Western Christian cathedral schools and that various works by Aquinas, William of Ockham (of Ockham's Razor fame) and others produced great philosophy of science works that remain relevant today for a firm conceptual foundation (which he terms "moderate realism") for Western science generally, from physics to psychology. In my view, this approach has great epistemic humility, and I believe it is very promising.
However, Thomas Aquinas is not canonized as a saint in the Orthodox church, so while I am liking his philosophy of science writing I have seen so far, I am hesitant to fully endorse this approach until I know more. At the same time, G.K. Chesterton (who my parish generally respects as having many good Orthodox insights) wrote a praising biography of him, and Psychology's current foundation is on the anti-Christian Positivism of Auguste Comte, Karl Pearson, and Ronald Fisher.
My questions are as follows: If the knowledge derived from Western science should be thought of as having an (in part) post-Schism Western Christian basis, to what extent is this knowledge ultimately reconcilable with Orthodox knowledge? To what extent should this affect Orthodox church members' beliefs in knowledge claims derived from Western science? And what constitutes an Orthodox approach to the pursuit of truth through science, anyway?
Interesting… I wonder if you have encountered the work of Fr Chad Ripperger? His huge Introduction to the Science of Mental Health is a Thomistic take on the human person, and his many youtube videos are fascinating. (Sorry - this doesn’t answer your questions which are way beyond my competence- though I would say that some people argue that the whole post-1500 period is an aberration and that it started with William of Ockham’s nominalism.)
I have not encountered his work yet! Thanks for the recommendation. Understanding how other Christians are using Thomism to understand and conduct psychological science is definitely relevant to my questions.
Grice's moderate realism that he is proposing doesn't seem to affirm Ockham's nominalism, which opposes the existence of universals as entities. And thanks for warning me about the post-1500 period :)
Been reading Surprised by Joy. Lewis says at one point that he’s often at cross-purposes with the world because he is a “converted pagan living among apostate Puritans.” Man that’s a good line.
I hope what follows isn't too crass or self-serving. If so, it can be deleted and/or I can move the comment to chat.
To wit, next year my seventh poetry collection, The Place That Is Coming to Us, will be published by Broadstone Books in Kentucky. The poems largely engage with our relationship with the non-human world and how that relationship has gone awry, per the Machine, and in a smaller way consider how we might look beyond currently dominant perspectives; I am possibly providing a contemporary addendum to Robinson Jeffers. Some of my individual poems have appeared in publications such as Terrain and Dark Mountain, so this may give you an idea of my perspective.
At this point I am starting the process of seeking blurbs from authors of at least one book who have an interest in the topics involved and maybe even poetry. Please contact me if you are interested, and I can send a file of the accepted manuscript in its current form. Reading the manuscript certainly does not obligate anyone to provide a blurb, since no poetry collection is for everyone. I can provide an inscribed copy of the published version and/or a gift of food/drink if appropriate.
There's an edit button if you click the three dots. Is is not working?
I can no longer like comments...
I just liked yours.
For some reason It does not work for me anymore...I like a lot of the comments I read but can't respond affirmatively...not sure why? Someone said use a different browser but that didn't work either..
I just saw that a new Charles Taylor was published back in the end of May. The title is, Cosmic Connections: Poetry in the Age of Disenchantment and here is part of the description of its content:
Reacting to the fall of cosmic orders that were at once metaphysical and moral, the Romantics used the symbols and music of poetry to recover contact with reality beyond fragmented existence. They sought to overcome disenchantment and groped toward a new meaning of life. Their accomplishments have been extended by post-Romantic generations into the present day. Taylor's magisterial work takes us from H lderlin, Novalis, Keats, and Shelley to Hopkins, Rilke, Baudelaire, and Mallarm , and on to Eliot, Milosz, and beyond.
In seeking deeper understanding and a different orientation to life, the language of poetry is not merely a pleasurable presentation of doctrines already elaborated elsewhere. Rather, Taylor insists, poetry persuades us through the experience of connection. The resulting conviction is very different from that gained through the force of argument. By its very nature, poetry's reasoning will often be incomplete, tentative, and enigmatic. But at the same time, its insight is too moving--too obviously true--to be ignored.
He’s getting up there in years, but maybe you could have a conversation about this with him and post it on YouTube? I think it would be most interesting.
https://whiteoakbooks.net/book/9780674296084
That's quite a find, thanks for mentioning it! Every other person I speak with about belief lately has mentioned "After Virtue," and if I'm going to go full Taylor-neophyte, then "Cosmic Connections" will also go on the list.
”After Virtue” is actually Macintyre but both men are so worth reading. Taylor is most known for ”A Secular Age”. I benefitted greatly from hos ”Modern Social Imaginaries”.
Sounds like at least half the people you’ve been bumping into have good taste in deep thinkers :)
Ah -- I'm glad I used the word neophyte above, since I was unknowingly going to prove that word myself. They'll both be on the list, that's no worry at all. Thanks!
Bought it back when it first came out after seeing a review or two, but haven't had time to start it yet due to other reading commitments. Then I saw that a new book by Wm. Cavanaugh had appeared back in January (not sure how I missed it), ordered it, and have now dropped everything to read it -- it's supposed to arrive today. The gist of it is that we're not so much suffering from disenchantment but from "bad" enchantment -- idolatry. The previous books of his that I've read have been excellent and I don't expect any less from this one.
https://www.americamagazine.org/arts-culture/2024/07/23/review-cavanaugh-uses-idolatry-248377
Hadn't seen the Cavanaugh book - it's surely great. I read Being Consumed and he was actually here at my seminary many years ago and lectured on the myth of religious violence. I read his Being Consumed and enjoyed it thoroughly.
Yes, Being Consumed was the first thing of his I read as well!
Paul, I just wanted to say thank you for the "Orthodoxy for Beginners" post a couple of weeks ago. I've been reading Kallistos Ware, but I am grateful for a few other suggestions to look into.
My question for other readers: I've been going to liturgy pretty consistently for about a year and a half. I love it. I've been able to bring my kids a few times. But any ideas others have for encouraging a spouse or other family members to try it out would be greatly appreciated! (Or maybe that's not the way, I don't know. Just curious how others have gone about approaching someone who is reluctant to try attending a Divine Liturgy on Sunday.)
Good morning to you. I was Chrismated almost 4 years ago. I was someone who was floundering in my faith until my younger brother introduced me to Orthodoxy. I was shocked, surprised and now grateful! My husband was raised RC and left the church many years ago. I have introduced him to Liturgy but he is shut off to it. My heart is saddened by this but I also know that I am not called to evangelize. I can only be a good example and pray that his heart will open to the truth and beauty of Orthodoxy. Joyful to hear about your journey, God bless you as you move forward.
Hello Jared, beloved of Christ.
Yes Paul's 'Orthodoxy for Beginners" is excellent.
Glory to God that you're attending liturgy. Participation is even better than study. God willing you might enter the church in His good time.
We've had some enquirers at our church faced with similar issues re family. Rather than pushing to have family and friends attend liturgy, we instead made sure they were all invited to whatever parish event, festival, meal (fellowship after communion). Eventually they came. It has been a lovely, gentle way to show them hospitality without expectations, beneficial for several families who are now Orthodox. Remember the importance of prayers and patience.
One of our most beloved parishoners waited ten years for his formerly protestant wife to 'come and see'. He says he never urged her. He's now studying for the priesthood and his now Orthodox wife and all their children never miss church.
If you join the church, and faithfully walk the path she has laid out for you, then slowly you will be transformed and this transformation will be obvious to people around you. (Look at Paul!). Without trying, you will light the way for others.
I second this. Invite them to join for the 'second half' or our services. Arrive in time for coffee hour, join for feast day celebrations, In my experience, no one will judge them for missing the service. Everyone will be glad they are there in that moment.
Thank you! This is very encouraging.
I’m in a similar position to you - recently joined the Orthodox Church myself but husband and daughter are unsure. My husband is open to coming to Divine Liturgy but our daughter is more ambivalent.
I’ll share the saint of the day with my daughter and she sometimes hovers nearby when I say my prayers. My approach is not to force anything but to keep them both in my prayers and try to bring the light of Christ into our home.
In addition to what the other commenters have said, if your parish serves Vespers that's a good opportunity for folks to "come and see."
The only thing that was able to get my parents and siblings to come was the baptism of my kids. So they've attended 4 services over the last decade :) Unfortunately, they remain almost completely disinterested. For my part, I've decided to take a very hands off approach as most of our conversations are unprofitable and instead rely on prayer. I could only explain so many different times and ways, "No, we don't worship Mary..." before it became obvious they weren't really listening or trying to understand. The gap my conversation a decade ago has caused between us is a pain point, but I have to constantly remind myself that God loves them and desires their good far more than I am capable of.
Hello everyone.
Christ's last words on the Cross, "it is finished/completed, *Mashelem*. Discuss?
I read a good book about this recently - “The Fourth Cup” by Scott Hahn
My piece on the dangers of drugging millions of schoolchildren to sit still was spiked last minute by a major publication for being “too philosophical.” So I made it even more philosophical and put it here: how drugging children can destroy their souls, their love, and their faith:
https://gaty.substack.com/p/attention-a-love-story
Hope y’all like it!
I loved it!
Thank you!
The spiritual void at the heart of Western Civilisation.. Big words, and Paul isn’t the type to use them lightly. Looking forward to the story of the conversion (and The Machine in print). As a fan since the early Dark Mountain days, and a non-Christian, I’m very curious about this, and the likely overlap with the big words above.
Concerning that supposed void, I stumbled upon a wonderful perspective this year; renowned religious scholar and mystic Peter Kingsley’s ‘A book of life’. Simple and grounded and playful and anecdotal, yet so momentous in scale and implication that it shook me profoundly.
Anyone read it?
Hi Andrea's, your message made me curious and I was reading about the book you mentioned. Then I came across Barry Long's" the Origins of Man and the Universe- the myth that came to life", have you read it or heard about it. Apparently Peter was a devotee of Barry. Sounds interesting too, right?
No I hadnt heard of him, but very intrigued after reading abit. Thanks for recommendation, added to reading list :) He is also very fond of Henry Corbin, who heavyweight Dark Mountaineer Martin Shaw also has a weak spot for.
Hi All, for the Feast of the Assumption today I’m writing about a recent frightening health ordeal I went through, surgery, fear, and the role the Blessed Virgin played in bringing me to faith after a lifetime of atheism.
https://natashaburge.substack.com/p/hail-holy-queen?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaYayP_RWL1izawk6ohdSZM_ca3SHvsEjk3A1HNXAcMxIjRIOLSUKmFwZ0M_aem__jg-jAbLGfdc1wYxSXFlGA
Thanks for this...Mary undoer of Knots 9 day novena has been so helpful.
Truly!
If anyone is looking for a good read, I’m about halfway through “A History of the Island” by Eugene Vodolazkin. Excellent book.
It is very good, and explores some of the same themes like time in Vodolazkin's other works. My favorite of his remains "Laurus."
Paul, a friend told me that you are scheduled to speak in Birmingham, AL in October. Is this so? Birmingham is not far from my neck of the woods in Franklin, Tennessee.
I have already purchased my ticket, and have been recommending it to family and friends at church. Odd that Paul did not include it in his upcoming US speaking engagements.
With prompt from my friend, I found the link: https://tacticalfaith.com/events/paul-kingsnorth-2024/ . See you there!
Ditto on the “Orthodoxy for Beginners “. I attend a reformed theological Baptist leaning church. I have contemplated on leaving my church and attending an Orthodox Church. I haven’t talked to my elders about it. I’m not sure I trust my feelings and motives. I do subscribe to Rod D’s, and Paul’s Substack so yes I’m probably influenced. I want to be in the “right” church and for God to find my worship pleasing. I don’t want to make this about me, but of course that’s easier said than done. I’ve been praying on it and will read the resources provided. I know there’s not a perfect church in theory, but perhaps I expect perfection even though any church with sinners gathering makes a church messy. Yes, it’s heaven I desire and I’m not very good at waiting I guess. I also don’t want to be a consumer of a church, something that in my opinion plagues the American evangelical church. Also, the individualistic American culture that makes us American for the good and the bad.
I would love to hear from anyone who left the Protestant church and what led you to the Orthodox Church.
I have a radically different understanding of Christianity than the Christians I know. I interpret the Bible as indigenous wisdom and live closely to Creation which fundamentally changes everything. Like, the parable of the Wild mustard seed has a totally different interpretation than the ones I've heard since I've gathered the seeds directly from their pods in the wilderness. No church that I've encountered uses this lens - the Bible as indigenous wisdom and knowing Creation physically (versus intellectually - which is what most churches offer. They do this because everyone is so separated from Creation in our industrialized world. I really can't fault them. They're just speaking through the lens their followers understand). I wrote an essay that summarizes this if you're interested: https://divinenature.substack.com/p/stumbling-our-way-back
With this lens, I do not expect to be fed at any church. And I don't expect to be understood either. I've learned to not care about theological differences. My church role is to volunteer with children's ministry during the service and just enjoy everyone. I don't know much about orthodoxy, but going to an Orthodox church isn't' an option for me since there isn't one nearby anyways (I live on an island; we don't get to pick from a buffet of churches).
I had a humbling experience recently. I was listening to a native Hawaiian woman passionately pray and she said: "I pray against diabetes, gangs, murder, and drug overdoses." Wow. The reformed people I've been around for years do not pray like that because their lives don't include those tragedies. And that got me wondering about how many of the different Christian factions might be subtly linked to class, educational level, and intellectual ability. No one talks about this...because it's umm...really uncomfortable... but this woman's genuine prayer just hit me and I can't stop thinking about it.
Yes, I hear you. I know Jesus loves his church and I think wants us to gather in his name. My challenge is I often get in the way and make it about me. I have so much modernity in me that I forgot or struggle with the power of the Holy Spirit and also get jaded on other members in the church forgetting they’re sinners and their good deeds are filthy rags. I guess I fail to love well. The tension between grace and law is always pulling me and I can go to either extreme.
Friend, I am moved by your honesty. It is an honor for me to read your thoughts. Remember that God's overwhelming love for you is more you can even handle (flaws and all) and He would do anything, and I mean anything, to never never lose you. Wherever you go to church, you are a gift to that community because you're a child of God. We all fail to love well.
In grace,
your sister in Christ
Alissa
And that got me wondering about how many of the different Christian factions might be subtly linked to class, educational level, and intellectual ability. No one talks about this...because it's umm...really uncomfortable...
This!!! I couldn’t agree with you more. You’re a real thinker and it’s so encouraging.
I was on the mission field going into Romania when I first encountered Orthodoxy (as Romania is like 85% Orthodox!). I'd been to Bible school and considered myself fairly well read, but I knew virtually nothing about the Orthodox Church. I stumbled across a copy of "The Orthodox Way" by Kallistos Ware and it set me on a journey of discovery. Initially, it was the historical claims and continuity of faith along with the beauty and reverence of the services that captured me. It was a long journey (a decade) of questions, struggling, doubt and even walking away from all things Christian for a season. I quickly learned enough to feel like I couldn't remain Protestant, but not enough to feel ready to plant my flag in the Orthodox Church, so I remained in a sort of no man's land torn between the two for a long time. In retrospect, I think part of the reason it took me so long and why it was such a painful process (indeed and existential crisis!) was my felt need for absolute certainty. I felt that I needed to be able to answer every question and to resolve every doubt before I could become Orthodox. After 10 years of reading and study and still not reaching that point, I realized that was a pipe dream. I ultimately found myself with St. Peter saying, "Where else can I go?"
It's only after the passage of time having been Orthodox that I came to realize that the knowing was only to be found in the doing, participatory knowledge. Not unlike being married. You can go to all the premarital counseling you want, read all the top rated books on being married and interview all the married people you know, but you won't truly know what it is until you're married and in the fray of the daily struggles, challenges and blessings that come. Orthodox is no different. It's a life to be lived, not a set of ideas to be assented to. Pray the prayers, participate in the Feasts and fasts, attended the services. This is the best advice I can give.
Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts.
Thank you. Karen Armstrong has written about the importance in religious devotion of practice (as distinct from cogitation/belief). In The Case for God, if I remember correctly.
I was Lutheran and was chrismated earlier this year. Up until last year I have been just researching to better understand the Old Testament and the Ancient Near East context of scriptures. I was increasingly convinced that our modern churches do not do a good job of reflecting the fullness of the faith. I wanted to go to church, but when I went I found myself not ever really drawn in, something was missing. I encountered Orthodoxy when I started listening to the Lord of Spirits podcast and within a few episodes, I realized I had to go to a Divine Liturgy. They talked about so many things that I hadn't been able to get answered in Protestantism and experience in church. So I finally went, and it was beyond what I expected. I had to go back again and again, and before I knew it, I was a catechumen. It is difficult to explain, it is something you have to experience. It is a rich and full faith, and the Holy Spirit is there.
Thank you Yvonne. Your words are appreciated and very helpful.
I was raised reformed Presbyterian, and learning TULIP (five-point Calvinism) when I was fourteen pretty much destroyed my hope in the goodness of God. I left the church at that point, and never considered it again until I was pregnant with my first son. Motherhood saved me; I finally understood what it meant to love, and I understood that if I, being the selfish asshole that I am, could be so completely swamped with love for my child, I really didn't need to worry about the goodness of God any more. Since then it's just been a process of elimination, moving upstream - continental Protestantism was already out, so I attended an Episcopal church for a while, but they are so far off the map I found it hard to take seriously. Next up: small o-orthodox Anglican, which was lovely, and reverent, and had the most beautiful music I've ever heard. I might have stayed if they hadn't fallen apart during covid, but they did; the church can't be afraid. I knew I couldn't be Roman Catholic, and I'd eliminated all the Protestant options - there was only one place left. It's farther away, both geographically and culturally, but it's the only thing that is internally coherent, and I was chrismated in 2023. It was a long and painful journey to reach the end of the line, but I am thankful to be here - I can't get any farther upstream, so here I will spend the rest of my days.
Thank you for sharing Gracie. I’m very appreciative.
I converted to the Orthodox Church 14 years ago, after being in Protestant churches for many decades. I liked knowing that the Orthodox were carrying on the tradition of the apostles more than anyone else, and many other things that were "right" about it, but in the end, I attended enough services that I fell in love, and knew it was Home. It took me another seven years to get baptized, though!
Thank you Gretchen.
I was Protestant and became Orthodox last year. Protestantism for me was missing something, dry. Like the Bible says, 'having a form of Godliness but denying its power'. I felt guilty for not going but didn't want to go. Providence blocked my baptism in the Protestant church. I felt like I needed to decide once and for all on what I believed and who I am. I read one of Paul's essays 'The Age of Antichrist is already here' and it expressed something I was thinking but couldn't put into words. I found out he was Orthodox after trying all sorts of other things and asked him why Orthodoxy. He said 'Go and see for yourself'. I did. The Liturgy was in Greek, but I knew when I left the building that this was it. I can't explain why. I know with every ounce of my being that this is the one true Church. I can't wait to get there and I don't want to leave. I am home!
Yes, I’m going through the same thing now in my Protestant church. I appreciate you sharing your experience.
Hi Buddy. I was raised Catholic and left it in college in the midst of the Jesus Movement - even though I was a serious Catholic, I thought Evangelical Christians had a better, more direct relationship with Jesus and interpretation of Scripture. There I remained for about three decades, in nearly every flavor of "conservative" Evangelicalism, including the Vineyard (my best experience of it all). It was when I got into my mid-40s, after living more of life and becoming a parent, that some questions began to come forward into my consciousness. Evangelical theology (and to some extent folk religion kinds of views therein) had competing answers to my questions, and painted a picture of God that I started to see made me very uneasy in several ways. It was not like I was looking for "The Authority" - aren't we supposed to be able to understand these things because of the Holy Spirit within us? It was more that I got tired of all the arguing and nit-picking with such vastly different theological opinions. Underneath my intellectual uneasiness, I had always been drawn to seeking the manner and place in which God wanted me to worship. I also decided to start reading the Christian writings from before the Schism. Some of that was helpful; I didn't yet understand the differences in definition of theological terms as understood by ancient Christians and as understood by Protestants.
This was the time that the Emerging Church movement was gathering steam. I sensed I needed an actual prayer rule, which the Northumbria Community provided in a gentle, direct and Celtic saints-inspired way (the saints were my friends when I was a Catholic child, and they were praying me back to Classical Christianity, I'm convinced!). It was also when I was introduced to Dallas Willard, and to N.T. Wright. Willard convinced me that God actually truly is good. Wright opened up the first century in such a way that I felt like I finally understood the NT, esp Paul. There was a wholeness about that picture that left Evangelical theology in the dust. At the same time I was trying to find an Emerging Church group with which I could be aligned, primarily because of the creativity and God-thirst of their worship experiences (Northumbria was a great blessing, but the members and activities are primarily in England), I was finding out more and more about Orthodoxy, mostly via the Internet (which it took a while to wade through), but also through a very articulate Orthodox person on an email list devoted to discussing Wright's ideas. There is a lot of overlap between how Wright interprets the message of the NT and the Orthodox view; Wright understands the early Christian definitions of theological terms, which helped me a lot. My email list friend also directed me to the work of Margaret Barker, which firmly ties in the worship aspect of Judaism to what is going on in the Orthodox Liturgy and Pascha. By the time I started reading Fr Stephen Freeman's blog not long after he began it, I was coming to see that God was probably directing me to Orthodoxy. Reading Fr Stephen brought it all together for me - so much of what he writes simply grabs both my intellect and my heart. I'm one of those semi-fortunate souls who read my way into the Church. I knew Orthodoxy was "out there", but for most of my life I thought it was just the Catholic Church in Greek. I had to have my questions answered in such a way that I was able to see the seamlessness of the whole big picture of Orthodoxy, how the experience/practice is the expression of the theology. Just as leaving the Catholic Church for Evangelical Protestantism was a matter of conscience for me in my 20s, entering Orthodoxy was a matter of conscience for me in my 50s, even though I didn't have every theological detail worked out. There was just too much in Orthodox theology and anthropology that I knew to be real.
The difficulty for me was that the nearest Church is an hour away from where I live, so I didn't attend a Liturgy until I was ready to pound on the door to be let in :) The drive is very pleasant, through forest and vineyards, so not onerous at all. I am very grateful for Wright, and I also suspect most people don't have to go through him. If one one academically inclined, there are very good Orthodox scholars out there. Of course, the experience of Orthodox worship is different than the reading about it, but I was not disappointed. My husband, however, was, being still a committed Evangelical. I was chrismated in 2009, after all our kids were out of the house, which was a good thing. Between then and now he has set foot in the church building exactly once. But somewhere along the way he finally decided that I'm still a Christian :) He's had a lot of patience with me. I talk about Orthodox stuff to him if I think he's willing to listen, but he has a conscience, too, and I'm not willing to upset that, so I'm not trying to bring him to conversion. God meets all of us where we are, always working to bring us to Himself no matter what.
Dana
Hi Dana , thanks for sharing your journey. I’m so appreciative. Your experience resonates with me and
I can’t thank you enough. I can relate. blessings, Buddy
When my husband and I, longtime evangelical Protestant Christians, moved to a new place, we spent several years trying to find a church home. We attended several Protestant churches, and we began to see a pattern that had eluded us before: the services were heavily dependent on the preaching skills of the pastor. That began to feel “off” to us for the first time. We began to question the purpose of church; surely it was to worship God rather than study Him? Alas, the worship music seemed more like attending a concert, complete with stage, lighting, and props in some cases. Its intent appeared to be to generate an emotional state, which something told us wasn’t equivalent to worship.
We found ourselves increasingly drawn to liturgy. We attended an Episcopal church for a while, but it was too difficult to pin down what they actually believed.
At the same time, a friend introduced us to Orthodoxy, which we began to read about. We were intrigued and attended an Orthodox Liturgy — and were so appalled it took a year before we attended another. The giant icon of Mary behind the altar, the incense, the chanting, the flat-out weirdness of everything — no thank you.
But something — Someone — kept pulling us back. We continued to read and pray and finally decided we needed to regularly attend an Orthodox Church to really give it an honest try. It was profoundly confusing and uncomfortable — disorienting, really — for a while, but we also realized something very profound and beautiful was happening there, so we stuck it out. Each time it felt as though we were stepping into an alternate reality, or actually a deeper one. “Blessed is the Kingdom …” it begins, the beginning of a journey into the eternal kingdom of God.
Eventually we became catechumens and joined. My husband was ready before I was — this wasn’t a lockstep journey — but we both got there in the end.
That was 26 years ago, and it’s been “further up and further in*” ever since. We are still learning what it means to be an Orthodox Christian and I suspect that will never end. That’s a good thing.
God bless you on your journey.
*Nod to CS Lewis
A double like!!! Wow, you nailed it. How resonating your experience is and what I’m currently thinking through. The skills of the Pastor!!! Yes, my church wanted a pastor with strong academic credentials and degrees in our Pastor search when our other Pastor disqualified himself several years ago.
I appreciate the time frame you mentioned. I think I have to jump right in. I don’t want to make a decision in haste based on my feelings. I have visited an Orthodox service, and I was lost. I plan to go again and keep it in prayer. I’m thankful for you and others sharing their love, encouragement, wisdom and journey about Orthodoxy.
It’s OK to feel lost at an Orthodox service. There’s a lot going on! My advice is to let go of trying to “do everything right” or even to understand what’s going on at first. We used the Liturgy books for a while, but they were a mixed blessing; we kept trying to figure out where we were. I would suggest just letting it all wash over you for a while. And pray! God be with you.
A glorious Feast of the Dormition of Our Most Holy Lady, the Theotokos and Ever-Virgin Mary to all here at the salon! Continually pray for us O Mother of Life!
A little thought has occurred to me. I have found some peace in it, which I think suggests its worth holding on to. I have been operating on a vision of what the parish church has been historically and I think I can safely say what it was supposed to be, which is in practice the center of a community. That parish model has felt the strain of machine living, as we commute in to attend then motor back to our busy lives, the majority of which are spent not only away from church, but away from each other. In the best cases, the parish is more of a visiting place than it is the real center of a community.
But this is thought occurred to me. We often talk of the home as "the little church", but I think in truth it is something more like a little monastery. We have all kind of been forced into what is in reality more of a monastic existence than a communitarian one. Rather than trying to overcome that transformation, it might be more fruitful to embrace it. Christianity has found different structures throughout history to adapt to changing circumstances: House churches, Catacombs, Parishes, Cathedrals, Desert Cells and Caves, Monasteries. As the role of the parish has changed in reality, on the ground, in our lives, and we are more isolated and without much connection in our geographical pods, something a little different might begin to emerge. A slightly new expression of the faith. This cannot be a replacement of the physical, liturgical worship that takes place together on Sundays, but maybe something that fills in the rest of the week differently than attending or not attending the nearly empty weekday services that greet most of us on a given morning or afternoon.
That’s an interesting idea.
Well said, Daniel. I am intentionally embracing a monastic model for my home and 7 acres of land, and trying, in a failed clumsy manner, to create a small patch of beauty. Have you read, Timothy Patitis' "The Ethics of Beauty"?
On my to-do list.
When I had small children I remember the phrase "domestic monastery" floating around, and finding it a useful model. The children are nearly grown now, so a more solitary ascetic practice is required - perhaps helpful to think of home as a skete.
My mother passed a few years ago. Her large house had overgrown gardens. My siblings wanted me to purchase their shares, so I did, because she never threw anything away and so there was a lot of work to do (plus family memorabilia quite precious to me). I devoted the home to the Theotokos, filled it with icons and prayer, and regularly sprinkle holy water in the gardens, and have prayed for guidance for it all, especially the garden for the Theotokos. People now marvel over the gardens, including gardeners, arborist, etc. It is a refuge for prayer for me. Somehow God's help has kept this process affordable, creative, and finding good people to work with. A process ongoing. I encourage anyone to do this at whatever degree is possible. It has been a transformation that continues to amaze me and a fruit of the Spirit
Thank you.
This sounds like a beautiful way to live.
Dana
Thank you. It has been a surprising and beautiful journey, not without its difficulties -- but ongoing
This is an interesting reflection and "the something a little different might emerge'" something I also think about quite a bit. Just so long as we don't call it "New Things", which according to a righteous rant by Giles Fraser in an Unherd article today is now to replace the word 'church' in the contemporary Church of England.
I always have several books on the go: currently I’m reading “Propaganda” by Jacques Ellul, “Dominion” by Tom Holland, and “Time for God” by Fr. Jacques Philippe.
I’m listening to Tom Holland’s podcast series on the French Revolution - a great antidote to the Paris Olympics opening ceremony - as well as New Polity’s latest series on “The New Paganism” - here’s a link to the first episode: https://youtu.be/0TUYU0FbEmw?si=sH222v0BdzYB7GL2
Next up for reading is “The Politics of the Real” by D.C. Schindler. Hoping to start an in-person book club/study group in the fall!
I am training to be a social science methodologist and am currently exploring Dr. James Grice's articulation of a conceptual foundation for Psychology based on the work of Thomas Aquinas and Aristotle. In his book, Observation Oriented Modeling, he mentions how the first universities in Europe originated from Western Christian cathedral schools and that various works by Aquinas, William of Ockham (of Ockham's Razor fame) and others produced great philosophy of science works that remain relevant today for a firm conceptual foundation (which he terms "moderate realism") for Western science generally, from physics to psychology. In my view, this approach has great epistemic humility, and I believe it is very promising.
However, Thomas Aquinas is not canonized as a saint in the Orthodox church, so while I am liking his philosophy of science writing I have seen so far, I am hesitant to fully endorse this approach until I know more. At the same time, G.K. Chesterton (who my parish generally respects as having many good Orthodox insights) wrote a praising biography of him, and Psychology's current foundation is on the anti-Christian Positivism of Auguste Comte, Karl Pearson, and Ronald Fisher.
My questions are as follows: If the knowledge derived from Western science should be thought of as having an (in part) post-Schism Western Christian basis, to what extent is this knowledge ultimately reconcilable with Orthodox knowledge? To what extent should this affect Orthodox church members' beliefs in knowledge claims derived from Western science? And what constitutes an Orthodox approach to the pursuit of truth through science, anyway?
Interesting… I wonder if you have encountered the work of Fr Chad Ripperger? His huge Introduction to the Science of Mental Health is a Thomistic take on the human person, and his many youtube videos are fascinating. (Sorry - this doesn’t answer your questions which are way beyond my competence- though I would say that some people argue that the whole post-1500 period is an aberration and that it started with William of Ockham’s nominalism.)
I have not encountered his work yet! Thanks for the recommendation. Understanding how other Christians are using Thomism to understand and conduct psychological science is definitely relevant to my questions.
Grice's moderate realism that he is proposing doesn't seem to affirm Ockham's nominalism, which opposes the existence of universals as entities. And thanks for warning me about the post-1500 period :)
Your last sentence made me laugh!
“You’re not to be seen associating with it! I forbid it!”
Been reading Surprised by Joy. Lewis says at one point that he’s often at cross-purposes with the world because he is a “converted pagan living among apostate Puritans.” Man that’s a good line.
I feel his pain.
I thought you might.
I hope what follows isn't too crass or self-serving. If so, it can be deleted and/or I can move the comment to chat.
To wit, next year my seventh poetry collection, The Place That Is Coming to Us, will be published by Broadstone Books in Kentucky. The poems largely engage with our relationship with the non-human world and how that relationship has gone awry, per the Machine, and in a smaller way consider how we might look beyond currently dominant perspectives; I am possibly providing a contemporary addendum to Robinson Jeffers. Some of my individual poems have appeared in publications such as Terrain and Dark Mountain, so this may give you an idea of my perspective.
At this point I am starting the process of seeking blurbs from authors of at least one book who have an interest in the topics involved and maybe even poetry. Please contact me if you are interested, and I can send a file of the accepted manuscript in its current form. Reading the manuscript certainly does not obligate anyone to provide a blurb, since no poetry collection is for everyone. I can provide an inscribed copy of the published version and/or a gift of food/drink if appropriate.
In any event, thanks for reading this far.
Good luck with it!
Thank you very much!