I sincerely hope your eventual American book tour will cover parts of New England. (The ROCOR Church in Albany NY, hint hint.) It would be such a pleasure to hear you in person.
Don't feel too much guilt about your corporeal limits on this tour Paul, I am certain there are many Americans who would travel a good bit to see you even if you can't show up right on their doorstep! Looking forward to seeing a schedule.
In your essay on cave drawings, your comments on the value of sacred as a non-religious experience, fits in with the quasi-religions of today, specifically golf. comes to mind. Each Sunday, having attended my usual Catholic Mass, I tune into this alternate Church. The announcers speak in awe of the sacred and hallowed grounds and activities. Almost amusing
Love the interview! I hadn't heard of the Fenland Tigers, how interesting that the roots of Empire this go back to the Dutch Republic and the conflict between Catholic Spain and Protestantism. (also interesting parallels with the draining of the bogs in rural Ireland in the 1700s)
What you didn't touch on in this interview - but you have elsewhere- is talk about the psychological colonisation that Empire requires. I have been reading Frantz Fanon's The Wretched of The Earth recently and it has struck me yet again of the similarities to the strategies used in domestic violence. As Fanon describes it the abuser/coloniser inserts their narrative into the victim, so it becomes part of them.
There is an Irish phrase 'the devil is stuck in them' which I heard often growing up, maybe it is not too fanciful to say that is what is actually happening? The Machine (an over reaching left hemisphere perhaps?) may be a distinct consciousness which inhabits its victims? And if it is, then the first step is to recognise it in ourselves?
Will watch that interview several times. It was a bit weird to have AI voices asking the questions. I think that threw me. But it felt like huge stuff was being said, just sightly beyond my ability to comprehend. My question is always the same. I accept none of us can "change the system". But you talk about changing our own lives in small ways and I am never quite sure what you believe that means. It is a bit of a problem when, without technology, I wouldn't be here twice over. This isn't a criticism. It is a sincere request for guidance.
It has an AI voice? I haven't actually watched it all the way through. If that's the case I might delete it. I'm not having these things on my site ...
Oh no! I assure you me and my partner are not AI! We rerecorded our questions so we could post the video interview without loads of rambling from us. This took a lot of human hours to accomplish. That's really unfortunate that you perceived it as AI, because we are very against AI.
I think I would personally have preferred you left the interview as it must have been originally. The result of removing what you call your "rambling" does result in a strange, if not actually AI, then "artificial" feel. Again I don't want to dwell on that, because the interview is one of the most comprehensive I've seen Paul give. I took a lot from it and I really appreciated that. So thank you. The dissonance just heightened what is my own personal frustration. A huge amount of what Paul says rings so true with me. He has changed my way of looking at the world. Nonetheless I am left stranded because I don't know what I should - or can- do about any of it. Perhaps he means me to figure out some path of my own. He is not didactic. But apart from trying to Iive in the world as it is, according to Matthew 22:37-40, I'm not sure what else is possible. I cannot visualise what the alternative way of living that he hints at would actually look like. And I can't help but see important positives alongside the negatives of the Machine - from how I didn't die in childbirth, as would have certainly been the case 100 years ago, to how how I'm still surviving in reasonable health at 76 (ditto). Features of the Machine have brought Paul into all our lives and allowed him to build what I would describe as his "ministry". Again I really don't mean to be deliberately provocative or contrary. My son will seize on literal inconsistencies to attack my faith because he does not want it to be true. That is the very opposite of my motivation here.
I'm grateful you found value in the interview in spite of our rerecordings. In posting the video interviews to YouTube, we wanted to really allow our subjects to shine, which is why we removed ourselves as much as possible. We have the podcast version available that includes our original recordings: https://deathinthegarden.substack.com/p/43-paul-kingsnorth-what-if-we-were-f1b
I understand this seeming contradiction that you're describing very well. I always come back to what is adequate and appropriate vs. what is not. It's undoubtable (to me) that humans are a tool-making, technological creature. What I believe has happened is that we've become unbalanced and we've lost our ability to discern whether certain technologies are necessary (perhaps generative is a better word, as in life-affirming) or if they are degenerative, whether that be to the environment or to the human soul. As filmmakers, we are users of technology - the medium of the age to spread any message widely is film and video. Writing requires technology, particularly if we want it to be widely accessible. I have to accept, as a human in this age, that these mediums serve an important purpose in shifting into a different consciousness.
But also I believe that the Machine mentality could still exist without technology, as it's so much more related to a particular way of thinking: that humans are lords and masters of the Earth, that nature is best understood by breaking it into parts, that the universe is a giant mechanism discernible to human intellect, that we have the power to control life and death, etc. This way of understanding the world has invariably led to a highly-technological, destructive, and wasteful society, and a different understanding of the world likely would not have led us to this point. In any case, we are all entangled in the Machine, and I believe the best that we can do at present is to disentangle ourselves as much as possible, while challenging the worldview of the Machine - within ourselves most importantly.
Iain McGilchrist's book, The Master and His Emissary, has been highly illuminating for me.
Coming back to this, today, Paul, while thinking about the Machine and its very long history, which I can see at work when Toqueville talks about the effects of the Enlightenment in bringing on revolution in France, and a war for independance in the U.S.
One of the small points that Tocqueville brings up, (but you can see it at work in the Protestant reformation, too, and not too many people know that it was not at all uncommon at the time for theological disputes to be pinned to church doors in order for people, physically present ? to be able to discuss their contents), is the rise of the intellectual class during the Enlightenment and its published, and widely disseminated theories about what the political process should be. (A chapter in "L'ancien régime et la révolution" which is specifically devoted to this subject.)
One of the links that you joined here was to an article about not reading alone, individually, but reading aloud, (Front Porch Republic) with other people, maybe even between adults, as a way of getting out of the trap that we (not the Machine) have laid for ourselves in our small, individual ? heads ? That article spoke to me in the current context where something during Covid time managed to push us even farther apart than even before. I feel it, at least. Other people around me feel it, and it is creating a lot of suffering.
One of the most unpleasant things that I have felt recently is my need to receive a reply that shows that someone OUT THERE has read what I have written, and is thus acknowledging that I exist.. for society ? in my own eyes ?
Could this possibly be the effect of broadcasting on Machine scale ?
Could it possibly be eating all of us up, since our flesh and blood bodies cannot keep up with all of the broadcasting and its effects on them ?
I know that we are all supposed to be... of the spirit, but still, that seems to me to have become a very tall order these days, being of the spirit.
As I have said before, a small number of the monastic orders associated with the Catholic Church have an order which strictly curtails speech.... but.. writing ? does this get the same press ? It is one thing to be able to curtail speech, and definitely a form of discipline, but writing ? I (idly) wonder how the monastic orders hold up on writing... on paper OR ON THE MACHINE.
If the monks in la Grande Chartreuse are holding out on this one, more power to them, and more power than I have, that's for sure.
Thank you for posting our interview, Paul! It has brought a lot of traction to our YouTube channel, which we greatly appreciate. Sending you all the best.
Paul - what a treat that you'll be in Wyoming in June. If you have the bandwidth and desire, you might come and see us in Montana at the Old Salt Festival. Three days of speakers, wood fired cooking, and Americana music all centered around a celebration of land stewardship in the American West. It's one of those genuine efforts to restore regionally appropriate food systems and local communities. https://www.oldsaltco-op.com/pages/old-salt-festival-2025
I sincerely hope your eventual American book tour will cover parts of New England. (The ROCOR Church in Albany NY, hint hint.) It would be such a pleasure to hear you in person.
I need to clone myself like a direwolf so I can be all over America at once ;-)
Heaven forfend!
Yes, New England would be good. So much colonial history here. We could use an infusion of a deeper history.
I'm really pleased for America, and for you, Paul, that you're such a hit, even though it would be a shame to become a direwolf to satisfy the demand.
It makes me happy to see how welcoming people can still be in my neck of the woods. That's a big encouragement for me.
Is an Optimistic Doomer one who is certain it's all going to blow up and can't wait to be there? Sounds like a blast!
You'd better ask the organisers. Optimist is a word that does not appear in my dictionary ;-)
Don't feel too much guilt about your corporeal limits on this tour Paul, I am certain there are many Americans who would travel a good bit to see you even if you can't show up right on their doorstep! Looking forward to seeing a schedule.
In your essay on cave drawings, your comments on the value of sacred as a non-religious experience, fits in with the quasi-religions of today, specifically golf. comes to mind. Each Sunday, having attended my usual Catholic Mass, I tune into this alternate Church. The announcers speak in awe of the sacred and hallowed grounds and activities. Almost amusing
Hoping to meet other Abbey of Misrule folks in Wyoming!
Love the interview! I hadn't heard of the Fenland Tigers, how interesting that the roots of Empire this go back to the Dutch Republic and the conflict between Catholic Spain and Protestantism. (also interesting parallels with the draining of the bogs in rural Ireland in the 1700s)
What you didn't touch on in this interview - but you have elsewhere- is talk about the psychological colonisation that Empire requires. I have been reading Frantz Fanon's The Wretched of The Earth recently and it has struck me yet again of the similarities to the strategies used in domestic violence. As Fanon describes it the abuser/coloniser inserts their narrative into the victim, so it becomes part of them.
There is an Irish phrase 'the devil is stuck in them' which I heard often growing up, maybe it is not too fanciful to say that is what is actually happening? The Machine (an over reaching left hemisphere perhaps?) may be a distinct consciousness which inhabits its victims? And if it is, then the first step is to recognise it in ourselves?
Will watch that interview several times. It was a bit weird to have AI voices asking the questions. I think that threw me. But it felt like huge stuff was being said, just sightly beyond my ability to comprehend. My question is always the same. I accept none of us can "change the system". But you talk about changing our own lives in small ways and I am never quite sure what you believe that means. It is a bit of a problem when, without technology, I wouldn't be here twice over. This isn't a criticism. It is a sincere request for guidance.
It has an AI voice? I haven't actually watched it all the way through. If that's the case I might delete it. I'm not having these things on my site ...
Oh no! I assure you me and my partner are not AI! We rerecorded our questions so we could post the video interview without loads of rambling from us. This took a lot of human hours to accomplish. That's really unfortunate that you perceived it as AI, because we are very against AI.
I think I would personally have preferred you left the interview as it must have been originally. The result of removing what you call your "rambling" does result in a strange, if not actually AI, then "artificial" feel. Again I don't want to dwell on that, because the interview is one of the most comprehensive I've seen Paul give. I took a lot from it and I really appreciated that. So thank you. The dissonance just heightened what is my own personal frustration. A huge amount of what Paul says rings so true with me. He has changed my way of looking at the world. Nonetheless I am left stranded because I don't know what I should - or can- do about any of it. Perhaps he means me to figure out some path of my own. He is not didactic. But apart from trying to Iive in the world as it is, according to Matthew 22:37-40, I'm not sure what else is possible. I cannot visualise what the alternative way of living that he hints at would actually look like. And I can't help but see important positives alongside the negatives of the Machine - from how I didn't die in childbirth, as would have certainly been the case 100 years ago, to how how I'm still surviving in reasonable health at 76 (ditto). Features of the Machine have brought Paul into all our lives and allowed him to build what I would describe as his "ministry". Again I really don't mean to be deliberately provocative or contrary. My son will seize on literal inconsistencies to attack my faith because he does not want it to be true. That is the very opposite of my motivation here.
I'm grateful you found value in the interview in spite of our rerecordings. In posting the video interviews to YouTube, we wanted to really allow our subjects to shine, which is why we removed ourselves as much as possible. We have the podcast version available that includes our original recordings: https://deathinthegarden.substack.com/p/43-paul-kingsnorth-what-if-we-were-f1b
I understand this seeming contradiction that you're describing very well. I always come back to what is adequate and appropriate vs. what is not. It's undoubtable (to me) that humans are a tool-making, technological creature. What I believe has happened is that we've become unbalanced and we've lost our ability to discern whether certain technologies are necessary (perhaps generative is a better word, as in life-affirming) or if they are degenerative, whether that be to the environment or to the human soul. As filmmakers, we are users of technology - the medium of the age to spread any message widely is film and video. Writing requires technology, particularly if we want it to be widely accessible. I have to accept, as a human in this age, that these mediums serve an important purpose in shifting into a different consciousness.
But also I believe that the Machine mentality could still exist without technology, as it's so much more related to a particular way of thinking: that humans are lords and masters of the Earth, that nature is best understood by breaking it into parts, that the universe is a giant mechanism discernible to human intellect, that we have the power to control life and death, etc. This way of understanding the world has invariably led to a highly-technological, destructive, and wasteful society, and a different understanding of the world likely would not have led us to this point. In any case, we are all entangled in the Machine, and I believe the best that we can do at present is to disentangle ourselves as much as possible, while challenging the worldview of the Machine - within ourselves most importantly.
Iain McGilchrist's book, The Master and His Emissary, has been highly illuminating for me.
Glad to hear that! I thought it sounded a bit unlikely. Thanks again for doing it.
Coming back to this, today, Paul, while thinking about the Machine and its very long history, which I can see at work when Toqueville talks about the effects of the Enlightenment in bringing on revolution in France, and a war for independance in the U.S.
One of the small points that Tocqueville brings up, (but you can see it at work in the Protestant reformation, too, and not too many people know that it was not at all uncommon at the time for theological disputes to be pinned to church doors in order for people, physically present ? to be able to discuss their contents), is the rise of the intellectual class during the Enlightenment and its published, and widely disseminated theories about what the political process should be. (A chapter in "L'ancien régime et la révolution" which is specifically devoted to this subject.)
One of the links that you joined here was to an article about not reading alone, individually, but reading aloud, (Front Porch Republic) with other people, maybe even between adults, as a way of getting out of the trap that we (not the Machine) have laid for ourselves in our small, individual ? heads ? That article spoke to me in the current context where something during Covid time managed to push us even farther apart than even before. I feel it, at least. Other people around me feel it, and it is creating a lot of suffering.
One of the most unpleasant things that I have felt recently is my need to receive a reply that shows that someone OUT THERE has read what I have written, and is thus acknowledging that I exist.. for society ? in my own eyes ?
Could this possibly be the effect of broadcasting on Machine scale ?
Could it possibly be eating all of us up, since our flesh and blood bodies cannot keep up with all of the broadcasting and its effects on them ?
I know that we are all supposed to be... of the spirit, but still, that seems to me to have become a very tall order these days, being of the spirit.
As I have said before, a small number of the monastic orders associated with the Catholic Church have an order which strictly curtails speech.... but.. writing ? does this get the same press ? It is one thing to be able to curtail speech, and definitely a form of discipline, but writing ? I (idly) wonder how the monastic orders hold up on writing... on paper OR ON THE MACHINE.
If the monks in la Grande Chartreuse are holding out on this one, more power to them, and more power than I have, that's for sure.
Thank you for posting our interview, Paul! It has brought a lot of traction to our YouTube channel, which we greatly appreciate. Sending you all the best.
Paul - what a treat that you'll be in Wyoming in June. If you have the bandwidth and desire, you might come and see us in Montana at the Old Salt Festival. Three days of speakers, wood fired cooking, and Americana music all centered around a celebration of land stewardship in the American West. It's one of those genuine efforts to restore regionally appropriate food systems and local communities. https://www.oldsaltco-op.com/pages/old-salt-festival-2025
It would be interesting to hear more about your thoughts on America as "Babylon" in some future writing.
Hello Paul,
Christ is Risen!
Someone spoke about your essay on Fr. Seraphim Rose, Patron of Lost Anericans. Will you be posting it on this platform?
I plan to in a few weeks.
Wonderful! Thank you~